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Religion is neutral? Ask the dead Incas if they believe that. Or the dead witches of Salem. Or gay men and women who are old or dead. Or dead slaves. Or men who suffered from the Inquisition. See if they agree with you that "religion is a victim".
But if we're not going to blame religion, then I'll put the blame on the religious...like YOU.
What's really ignorant is trying to blame religion for those things. You don't seem to have a clue.
The atheist community is no different than the fundamentalist religious community. Both are making outrageous propositions with no support.
What's really ignorant is trying to blame religion for those things. You don't seem to have a clue.
The atheist community is no different than the fundamentalist religious community. Both are making outrageous propositions with no support.
You have a point in that this is stuff that men do. So far as i know the Mongol hordes were not driven by religion and they did a more stunning conquest than Islam did. But the fact is that religion can add an extra and rather frightening dimension to this stuff - instead of finding a pretext or rationale for doing it, you simply use religion as the pretext, and it justified atrocities that regard all rules of war and society as mere human thinking and what God wants is good even if humanity would call it bad if humans did it. Do you see where the problem is?
Do you see where the problem is with the Vatican in particular (and a few other Christian groups I could name) not in what was done - a Big Charity recently found the same thing in their ranks - but that an organised cover up was put in place and the laws or humanity were simply ignored. You may say that this whole middle eastern mess was just the political battle over control of oil. maybe. But I would argue that, but for religion, it could have need sorted decades ago.
This is not even to touch on the pernicious influence on society, the family, politics and - until recently and still..if they got their way - education and the armed forces. Yes, there is an influence in religion beyond the evil that men do, and it is a good bit badder.
Religion is neutral? Ask the dead Incas if they believe that. Or the dead witches of Salem. Or gay men and women who are old or dead. Or dead slaves. Or men who suffered from the Inquisition. See if they agree with you that "religion is a victim".
But if we're not going to blame religion, then I'll put the blame on the religious...like YOU.
he's not religious. he just said he is agnostic. so he is one of YOU as in atheists and agnostics
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules
I've never pretended to know anything which is why I'm more of an Agnostic. If I have ever appeared disingenuous it was probably just my dry attempted humor. I'm not including you obviously, but there are some posters here who don't seem to have a sense of humor.
You have a point in that this is stuff that men do. So far as i know the Mongol hordes were not driven by religion and they did a more stunning conquest than Islam did. But the fact is that religion can add an extra and rather frightening dimension to this stuff - instead of finding a pretext or rationale for doing it, you simply use religion as the pretext, and it justified atrocities that regard all rules of war and society as mere human thinking and what God wants is good even if humanity would call it bad if humans did it. Do you see where the problem is?
Do you see where the problem is with the Vatican in particular (and a few other Christian groups I could name) not in what was done - a Big Charity recently found the same thing in their ranks - but that an organised cover up was put in place and the laws or humanity were simply ignored. You may say that this whole middle eastern mess was just the political battle over control of oil. maybe. But I would argue that, but for religion, it could have need sorted decades ago.
This is not even to touch on the pernicious influence on society, the family, politics and - until recently and still..if they got their way - education and the armed forces. Yes, there is an influence in religion beyond the evil that men do, and it is a good bit badder.
I guess I should lump you with all the evil people of your persuasion in the same way. Atheism could just as easily be demonstrated to be the cause of all the evils in the world the way religion has.
Both arguments are ridiculous, however.
People have been burnt at the stake for following the wrong atheism?
But they have NO bearing on the central issue of the EXISTENCE of God. Disproving the many ridiculous things people believe ABOUT God only discredits those beliefs.
Probability says otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
It has no impact whatsoever on the question of God's existence and that is baselined by the existence of our Reality which you pretend is some other name because we don't know WHAT it is.
It seems like so many atheists are wanting to blame religion, or religious people, for the things they have suffered.
No, I blame religion for what other people have suffered; and for what the religious are trying to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules
Religion is just as much a victim as anyone. Religion is neutral. Religion and atheism are just reflections of human society.
Go to the middle east and say there is no God. Wear a hard hat.
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