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Thanks, that is what i am trying to say. I once met a Franciscan monk on a flight from DC to Rome. We talked for the entire flight and he admitted he was no longer a believer, but had a strong calling to serve the poor in Nairobi, Africa. Whether God was real or not made no difference, he was 100% dedicated to his missionary work. This is what I describe as level II atheism.
Thanks, that is what i am trying to say. I once met a Franciscan monk on a flight from DC to Rome. We talked for the entire flight and he admitted he was no longer a believer, but had a strong calling to serve the poor in Nairobi, Africa. Whether God was real or not made no difference, he was 100% dedicated to his missionary work. This is what I describe as level II atheism.
he probably believes in "something more" its just that he sees religions take on it as woefully incomplete and lacking in a willingness to change with new observations.
god is what god is. Fundy theist and anti-god ers don't tell the universe how to behave.
we must stay focused on fundy theist and anti-goders having some of their points correct. They both can have parts of their argument correct and still not be the best set of truths we have.
People need to dump the fundy theist and anti-god claims that we are either with them or against them. That kind of thinking ends up hurting far more people than it helps.
he probably believes in "something more" its just that he sees religions take on it as woefully incomplete and lacking in a willingness to change with new observations.
god is what god is. Fundy theist and anti-god ers don't tell the universe how to behave.
we must stay focused on fundy theist and anti-goders having some of their points correct. They both can have parts of their argument correct and still not be the best set of truths we have.
People need to dump the fundy theist and anti-god claims that we are either with them or against them. That kind of thinking ends up hurting far more people than it helps.
My wife is a feminist, but that would be old school feminism. She expects men to take care of business and recognizes the positives associated with being a woman. She says that women measure their status by comparing themselves to hyper achieving men (CEOS, Nation leaders, billionaires, ect) which are a dime a dozen. Most men are average and struggling as much as women.
The Jefferson quote applies: The Church is stuck in antiquity and may very well remain there. The issue is that many love the old ways. The catholic Church is built on old traditions and they feel that if the traditions disappear then there is no Catholic Church.
Might be different definitions of feminist or perhaps some other form of confusion, but my wife expects any adult, man or woman, to take care of business and certainly recognizes (and exudes) the positives associated with being a women. Nothing really "old school" about that. Clinging to old traditions, ways of doing and thinking that have been a problem for women a long time now is certainly not in line with being a feminist in any case.
Simply put, the definition of feminism is "the advocacy of women's rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes." Overcoming the "old school" ways of thinking about women are what feminism is really all about.
It is a timeless truth that the older generation prefers the traditions and status quo they become accustomed to and the next generation moves us forward ever so slowly but surely, away from our old backward ways. It's a bit like watching the hour hand of a clock...
Thanks, that is what i am trying to say. I once met a Franciscan monk on a flight from DC to Rome. We talked for the entire flight and he admitted he was no longer a believer, but had a strong calling to serve the poor in Nairobi, Africa. Whether God was real or not made no difference, he was 100% dedicated to his missionary work. This is what I describe as level II atheism.
We all do it to some extent, but you seem to be more into labeling people than most.
Many priests go through a phase of atheism. And then one day they realize that whether God is real or not is moot and they remain priests. Others simply leave the priesthood. The Church is mostly based on traditions and rituals and these seem to be enough for many. The pews are full of agnostics if you visit a church where the parishioners are highly educated.
The Pope said atheists are fine:
Here is Bill Maher a well known atheist interviewing a priest in the Vatican. This is what I mean by prioests that get it. However, you will never find an evangelical like that.
That clip is from Bill Maher's documentary "Religulous" which I saw some time ago. Worth seeing in my opinion.
When it comes to spirituality, what people tend to believe (or not) and why is a very interesting dynamic that more often than not defies clear common understanding...
I was referring to your comment "Agreed. Organizations eventually try to further their own needs, rather than the needs of the people they represent."
Term limits, as in "new blood" is needed in all organizations where it seems interests become entrenched and corruption tends to follow. With all due respect, I think that has plenty to do with the topic of this thread.
Might be different definitions of feminist or perhaps some other form of confusion, but my wife expects any adult, man or woman, to take care of business and certainly recognizes (and exudes) the positives associated with being a women. Nothing really "old school" about that. Clinging to old traditions, ways of doing and thinking that have been a problem for women a long time now is certainly not in line with being a feminist in any case.
Simply put, the definition of feminism is "the advocacy of women's rights on the basis of the equality of the sexes." Overcoming the "old school" ways of thinking about women are what feminism is really all about.
It is a timeless truth that the older generation prefers the traditions and status quo they become accustomed to and the next generation moves us forward ever so slowly but surely, away from our old backward ways. It's a bit like watching the hour hand of a clock...
I don't disagree with that. However, my wife suggests that men and women should have distinct roles in society, that is how she grew up and she does not see it as oppression. In a sense is clinging to tradition, you are correct. As a man I prefer a traditional wife. IN fact many Western men are looking for Asian, Hispanic, and Eastern European women because they seem more traditional than typical Western females.
That clip is from Bill Maher's documentary "Religulous" which I saw some time ago. Worth seeing in my opinion.
When it comes to spirituality, what people tend to believe (or not) and why is a very interesting dynamic that more often than not defies clear common understanding...
Note, how the priest agrees with Maher. I give kudos to Maher for keeping the scene on the movie.
Note, how the priest agrees with Maher. I give kudos to Maher for keeping the scene on the movie.
Maher is a little too rough for my taste sometimes but, I think in the same film, he confronted a half dozen or so very large conservative men in a trailer, around the time (?) they were doing religious services. It's unkind to put it this way, but these were very large, redneck guys, and one was particularly aggressive.
Maher is not tall, but he stood his ground and did not appear to be afraid. He was being very blunt and critical and they could easily have hurt him. He went to Cornell but he is one tough little New York dude.
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