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Which is what we are here to put right, as well as debunking theist ones.
Don't try to elevate this nonsense as anything more than more of the same mocking and ridicule of belief in God, Arq. Associating childhood belief in a fairy tale with serious adult belief in God has no legitimate upside to it. It is pure mockery and ridicule.
Admittedly, some of the aspects of belief in God within religions contain inventions, hyperbole, and imaginative elements that resemble fairy tales, but those are all aspects of ancient human myths, legends, and storytelling that in no way make the point of the stories false or made-up nonsense.
Don't try to elevate this nonsense as anything more than more of the same mocking and ridicule of belief in God, Arq. Associating childhood belief in a fairy tale with serious adult belief in God has no legitimate upside to it. It is pure mockery and ridicule.
Admittedly, some of the aspects of belief in God within religions contain inventions, hyperbole, and imaginative elements that resemble fairy tales, but those are all aspects of ancient human myths, legends, and storytelling that in no way make the point of the stories false or made-up nonsense.
And just as admittedly, most theists believe in the version you list in the bolded above. This is what atheists tend to rebut. Few care about your universe as god concept except you are just so damn pushy and insulting with it and blend in strange concepts like galaxies as hells , universe wide consciousness, and such. Many atheists are pantheist when it doesn't contain other weird ideas.
OK, so you are an all or nothing person. I remain an agnostic.
Why not an agnostic?
Why does God has to be real?
How about the concept of God? Does it make a difference?
I don't see why you call me an "all or nothing person." I am an atheist and not an agnostic simply because as I understand the definitions of atheist vs agnostic, the definition of atheist better describes my thoughts about this subject and/or distinction. Not an "all or nothing" sort of thing. More like an all considered sort of thing...
If you don't care for it, fine, but I haven't see any argument that invalidates the Santa analogy. Some have said they like other analogies better, but the Santa one has the great advantage that Some people believe it up to the time they rumble the parents and after that Nobody does. It contrasts believing a lie ...let's make that 'Fairy -story'...with deconverting from it. You can of course run past me reasons why you think it doesn't work; you might convince me.
The last few dozen posts have been the usual apologetics wriggling and snarling, without value.
I'd say where we are not seeing "eye to eye" here, is with respect to measuring how well the Santa analogy works. How are you defining and/or measuring that success or failure?
Just so we're clear: I'm pretty much huff-proof. I said it would be the last post from me because I had responded at length to a number of antagonists, had nothing further to say on the subject, and the discussion with me had reached the end of its usefulness for all concerned.
Just as the "humility card" is a favorite game when a Christian is kicking unbelievers' butts, so is the "leaving in a huff" or "couldn't take the heat" game whenever a believer simply bows out because the discussion has become tiresome. I announced my departure only so people wouldn't waste time responding to me in the expectation of receiving an answer.
I've been making my living in adversarial argumentation for many years, in circumstances far more consequential than an internet forum. Forums such as this are nothing but mental exercise and amusement for me now that I'm retired. "Huffs" really aren't part of the equation.
I generally am the smartest person in the room, but I'm not so insecure that I have to adopt a screen name like "mensaguy" to strut my stuff. I do happen to have an IQ in the 99.7th percentile, but I find the entire "Mensa thing" rather silly, to put it mildly.
I don't typically discuss my IQ or credentials, partly because my credentials would identify me and mostly because I agree that everyone's posts should stand on their own merits. Here, I was specifically responding to a poster who had suggested my intellect was childish (oh, please) and that he would expect more humility from a Christian.
Debates on philosophical/theological topics - including virtually all discussions between believers and atheists of the sort that dominate these forums - are strictly matters of logic and critical thinking. They are strictly intellectual exercises, and I am quite experienced and adept at delivering intellectual smackdowns. "Humility" really isn't part of the equation. If someone doesn't like my style - hey, add me to your ignore list.
"How I treat people" and "show my humanity" is, as I see it, irrelevant to a thread such as this. I see no great show of humanity in any of the posts aimed at me or other believers, either in this thread or elsewhere in these forums.
What's really occurring, and always does, is that the atheists are taken aback at encountering a believer who can not only deliver an intellectual whuppin' but can out-snarky them in the process. Since the forums are clearly intended to operate as safe havens for atheists and fringe Christians, with a heavy and screamingly obvious bias against mainstream Christians, it's not surprising that the outrage is a very selective one-way street.
Interesting, and I'm glad you have returned...
I'm not entirely without experience in some of these areas of "argumentation," and to that end I appreciate your further elaboration or explanation with respect to some of my questions and responses. Seemed you left "in a huff" to me, for whatever your reasons. I've never been one to declare "adios" like that in any case. If the subject is of interest to me, I just stay involved with those worth staying involved with, and I ignore the rest. If I too am not worthy, then okay, but you seem to be addressing more of the emotional end of these exchanges rather than the more substantive content that is more of interest to me.
As you wish of course. No one is prisoner here, to do other than what they are most wanting or comfortable to do. I prefer engaging with opinion different from mine, because "preaching to the choir" bores me.
Don't try to elevate this nonsense as anything more than more of the same mocking and ridicule of belief in God, Arq. Associating childhood belief in a fairy tale with serious adult belief in God has no legitimate upside to it. It is pure mockery and ridicule.
Admittedly, some of the aspects of belief in God within religions contain inventions, hyperbole, and imaginative elements that resemble fairy tales, but those are all aspects of ancient human myths, legends, and storytelling that in no way make the point of the stories false or made-up nonsense.
Except that the "adults" with whom I grew up had a very childlike belief in God......much as children have a childlike belief in Santa Claus. I think the Bible commands so much, but I am not going to waste time quoting it.
This goes back to a to an interesting conversation I had long long ago with a friend who I had met at a Methodist church. He would frequently call and say "We missed you in church today" I did not go to church every Sunday, I went when I felt like, and most of the time, did not.....BUT he went every week. We talked about how he goes every week, and he said "Well, that is the way we were raised" I mentioned that my Mom was a religious addict, so it was not just go every Sunday it was go every &%( time there was an event at the church ! I made the choice to conduct MY life on MY term, not attending just because someone told me to.
Same for the belief in God. Am I supposed to believe something exists, , which has absolutely NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER, just because other adults told me that such a thing exists? And why do they believe it? The same reason my friend went to church every Sunday...because SOMEONE ELSE told him to do it/believe it?
I think that the difference comes because some of us do not follow what we are Told to think. My parents were very much into "What" a person thinks, as opposed to teaching us "How" to think. My father especially was into censorship, was scared to death of any opinion or interest outside of his tiny worldview.
Somewhere along the way, I learned how to think for myself. With that, God disappeared, ceased to exist.
Santa Did too, but yet Santa exists as a concept, a symbol, a myth, a cultural Icon. Why would a "god" be any different?
they already have.
many times over
it's one of the (many) reasons people stay away from atheism. in droves.
Sure doesn't keep people from visiting the "Atheism and Agnosticism" forum though...
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