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You think women can't be misogynists? Women can be among the worst. They will shame each other for having sex, vote to strip away reproductive rights, and so on. And it is usually rooted in religion.
That's what I noticed. I myself, as a woman brought up to believe those things, have gotten schooled plenty of times. I listen to the explanation if one is given and change if it makes more sense. I have argued mostly with women, that sexual assault is a crime and not something that a good man does because he is very passionate. It's the women that told me a woman should be flattered by unwanted male attention because it means she is attractive and therefore has value. It's the women that claim that other women should be personally responsible for rape.
One incident I remember was with a woman who had been raped when she was 12 by a family member. She did end up saying something to her family but the man claimed he had been in love with her for years. She got blamed by his family for ruining his marriage. This was as back in the 1970s and she hadn't realized we have moved on from that mentality. I explained what was wrong with that and she immediately started saying the rape wasn't her fault. She carried that around with her.
Another example was when I argued with three women about why grabbing a woman wasn't a man telling a woman she had worth but more about a man feeling like women are less than therefore consent isn't required. They went off to do the men vs women thing which isn't much better but I still put it in their consciousness that it's not ok.
A third example is my mother who thinks like someone from the 1950s. She told me one of the girls I had grown up with had seduced her uncle when she was 14. I freaked out on my mom. My daughter was 14 at the time and I told my mother that if one of my brothers had did that to my child my mother would have a son in the grave and a daughter in jail. Months later my mom came back with the mother of the 14 had been sexually abused by her father and didn't know it was wrong.
Keep speaking up, you just might be freeing a survivor of sexual assault from their own condemnation.
Good stories, L8. It was deeply ingrained in my own mother that men were superior, and the Reformed Church was behind the fortification of that. She told us bitter stories of growing up not being allowed to have a bicycle because they were for boys, and when a relative brought over used one when she was a child, it was put in the basement until her brother was old enough to ride. And yet, she carried that thinking down to her own family.
I am one of seven kids, but the last two, both boys, came later with a six-year-gap between my youngest sister, the fifth kid, and the first of those two boys. Therefore, for a good chunk of my childhood, we were four girls and one boy. Every Saturday my mother wrote up a list of chores that she taped to the side of the fridge with each of we four girls' names and what we each had to do that morning. My brother had no chores. When we asked why, it was "He's your only brother" as if that was a satisfactory answer.
Sometimes he had to do outdoor chores, but so did we. As a matter of fact, my sisters and I were reminiscing not long ago about the bizarreness of how my youngest sister, 2-1/2 years behind me, and I were made to climb up a ladder on the roof the house and scoot along on our butts and reach down and scoop out the leaves and other stuff from the gutters. Then we'd throw the stuff down to where my brother, four years older than me, had positioned the wheelbarrow at which we were to aim. While we were up moving along the gutter line on the roof scooping out dead rotting leaves and squirrel crap, his job was to push the wheelbarrow along a few feet at a time on the ground. I mean what the hell.
The "girls are bad and cause men to sin" mindset was also ingrained, unfortunately. Back in the early 70s, one of my older sisters had a friend who had a sister a couple of years younger than they were. As a teen, I remember my sister telling my mother and me that "Pam" had started having sex when she was 11 with the 19-year-old boy who lived on the farm next to theirs. Pam apparently thought this was great fun and told her sister and mine what she was doing with "Billy", at which point she learned from them for the first time that this is how pregnancy occurs. But the gist of the whole conversation was that Pam had been promiscuous since she was very young.
Only when I was in my 20s and recounted this story to someone else about "a girl I knew who started having sex when she was 11 and she responded, "OMG, and no one thought to report this 19-year-old for having sex with a CHILD?" did I myself realize with a start how I had thought of it the way my sister and mother did. It was the GIRL who was doing something wrong.
It's very hard to get that way of thinking out of people when they don't question it. Thankfully, I came of age in a time when people were questioning it loudly.
Only the oldest of our society (with the exception of some extremists) could make a comment such as: Women are supposed to be homemakers and ones that do are trying to be men. Saying a woman can have a carrier used to mean flaming liberal. I was debating some old male conservative Christian on the Christianity forum a few years back who said sexually assaulting his child might be something a man would do after a bad day at work. He's likely dead by now he was that old. It made me think how if death wasn't a reality we would have to invent it just to progress as a society.
When people talk of misogyny in Islam, I point to the fact of how much of the Koran is "borrowed" (or plagiarized ) from the Old Testament/Torah. If someone were to read the entire Old testament, boring and poorly written as it is, from start to finish, they would see what kind of misogynistic monster the god portrayed therein really is, and how this god seems to have a fascination with sex and genitalia, rape and murder. Things that would get anyone except for a priest or Baptist clergy tossed in jail where they belong today.
I have always said that the greatest Monster humans ever conceived or imagined is the god of the Bible.
Zombies Vampires, Bigfeet, even aliens do not hold a candle to the pure evil and anger of that deity.
When people talk of misogyny in Islam, I point to the fact of how much of the Koran is "borrowed" (or plagiarized ) from the Old Testament/Torah. If someone were to read the entire Old testament, boring and poorly written as it is, from start to finish, they would see what kind of misogynistic monster the god portrayed therein really is, and how this god seems to have a fascination with sex and genitalia, rape and murder. Things that would get anyone except for a priest or Baptist clergy tossed in jail where they belong today.
I have always said that the greatest Monster humans ever conceived or imagined is the god of the Bible.
Zombies Vampires, Bigfeet, even aliens do not hold a candle to the pure evil and anger of that deity.
More proof that it was written solely by men in a patriarchal, tribal society.
More proof that it was written solely by men in a patriarchal, tribal society.
I have used the misogyny in the Bible many, MANY times as proof of why the Bible was not written by or influenced by a good deity. Even IF the Bible were influenced by a deity, it was an evil monster. I never could, and still cannot, understand why so many people refer to God as the literal source of morality. My father even asked me once if I thought the Bible was a good place to get one's morality - I had to keep from laughing in his face.
And the misogyny begins literally from the very first pages of the Bible. Adam was created first - and a long time passes before God creates Eve. Notice Eve did not get to have any part in naming the animals. In fact, Eve wasn't even created yet when God warned Adam - and only Adam - not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Thus it was Eve who was targeted by the talking snake - and notice that when Eve ate from the tree, nothing happened. Literally ... nothing.
Because what women did simply did not matter. Their disobedience was almost par for the course. It wasn't until Eve convinced Adam to try a bite - and that's when God went utterly ballistic, showing what an evil and malicious, unfair thing that it was.
And this begins a pattern you see throughout the Bible - morally questionable women betraying and bringing down good, righteous men. It is a theme you see all the time. Eve, of course, was the first, bringing down Adam by convincing him to eat the fruit.
Even little things like - when a woman gives birth to a boy, she is unclean for 30 days but when she gives birth to a girl, she's unclean for 60 days - or maybe even 90 days. So it's basically saying that women are somehow "dirtier" then men.
The laws against rape merely set up little girls to be raped by nasty old men. If, say, an unattractive or elderly man wants a young and pretty wife, all he has to do is find a little unmarried girl and rape her. The law forces the girl to marry her rapist (so she can be raped repeatedly for the rest of her life) which is what the man wanted all along. The girl has no say in the matter. The man simply has to pay his 50 sheckles and now he has a wife that he probably never could've gotten through conventional means.
Just reading that book makes my skin crawl - which is just one more reason why I'm extremely vociferous about religion and why I dislike it so much.
Notice how Eve was created to be Adam's "helper." Not partner. Not equal. No. Eve was made to scurry around with her eyes downcast doing Adam's bidding. That is why Lilith was cut from the Bible - she was Adam's equal. And that couldn't stand.
I'm curious where you're getting that. Buddhists in Taiwan are overwhelmingly Mahayana.
Does that preclude them from ordaining Theravada nuns? I've read that they go to Thailand and Vietnam, and ordain nuns. The Vietnamese are mostly Mahayana, but I've read, that they ordain nuns in Thailand, too. And sometimes they go to north India, to ordain Tibetan nuns, or sometimes the Tibetan nuns are able to travel to Taiwan for ordination.
Does that preclude them from ordaining Theravada nuns? I've read that they go to Thailand and Vietnam, and ordain nuns. The Vietnamese are mostly Mahayana, but I've read, that they ordain nuns in Thailand, too. And sometimes they go to north India, to ordain Tibetan nuns, or sometimes the Tibetan nuns are able to travel to Taiwan for ordination.
I'm going to ask you again where you found that. It interests me, but in doing a Google search I found nothing.
I'm going to ask you again where you found that. It interests me, but in doing a Google search I found nothing.
"While the issue of ordination remains controversial in the Thai Buddhist community, the presence of fully ordained female Buddhist leaders such as Dhammananda Bhikkhuni, a Thai Buddhist nun, scholar and activist, has encouraged many in Thailand to take similar steps and receive ordination from abroad." Dhammananda is the first bhikkhuni in Thailand from the Theravada branch of Buddhism. She is a Thai bhikkhuni ("Buddhist nun"). On 28 February 2003, she received full monastic ordination as a bhikkhuni of the Theravada tradition in Sri Lanka. She is Abbess of Songdhammakalyani Monastery, the only temple in Thailand where there are bhikkhunis."
"Her mother, Voramai, was ordained as bhikkhuni in a Dharmaguptaka lineage in Taiwan in 1971 - the first modern Thai bhikkhuni.] Songdhammakalyani means "temple where women uphold the Dharma" and it is located in Nakhon Pathom near Bangkok."
"Historically, limited educational opportunities were available to Buddhist women. However, in recent years two emerging education initiatives have come to fruition across the Himalayas: Nuns in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition are, for the first time in Buddhist history, receiving the highest degrees and becoming Buddhist scholars and educators themselves. The first of such gender-equal monastic education programs started in Eastern Tibet. It grants the title of khenmo — the highest degree in Buddhist learning in the Nyingma tradition — to nuns who have completed a rigorous decadelong curriculum. Since the 1990s, over 200 women have graduated from the program. Some remained in teaching roles, while others assumed editorial or publishing roles, or became administrators at the Buddhist academy.
"Another group of Tibetan nuns at Dolmaling Nunnery in Himachal Pradesh, India, have received the geshema degree — the highest degree in Tibetan Gelugpa monastic learning — since 2016, following a precedent set by the German Tibetan nun Kelsang Wangmo. As of 2019, 44 nuns hold the geshema degree. Like their counterparts in Eastern Tibet, many geshema graduates became teachers at their institutions and are cultivating future generations of female scholars."
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 05-27-2022 at 12:39 PM..
"After a hiatus of one thousand years, Theravadin women once more have the opportunity to ordain as bhikkhunis and thus become full members of the Sangha."
"Recently, however, after extensive re*search by a group of women from Sri Lanka and Europe, it was confirmed that the bhikkhuni lineage extant in Taiwan and Korea is actually of Sri Lankan origin and therefore could legitimately be used to ordain Theravada nuns and restore the bhikkhuni order.
"Although I received novice ordination in the Tibetan tradition in 1993, being in my heart a Theravadin and having a long association with the Thai forest tradition, I decided recently to go to Sri Lanka to receive the sāmaṇēri vows of the Thera*vada vinaya school. It was a very happy experience for me, and I came away deeply impressed with the situation that is developing there—impressed with the bhikkhunis and sāmaṇēri I met, and in*spired by the impact the female sangha is having on their society."
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