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Having all of the facts on your side is not incompatible with cosmic nihilism. I think it's understandable why someone could accept atheism and still lament the lack of cosmic purpose.
Empirically, judging by the birthrate trend in secular countries, it may also prove that belief in cosmic purpose, however fallacious, may be a necessary adaptation of our species, at least to support the population numbers necessary to maintain industrial civilization.
Having all of the facts on your side is not incompatible with cosmic nihilism. I think it's understandable why someone could accept atheism and still lament the lack of cosmic purpose.
Empirically, judging by the birthrate trend in secular countries, it may also prove that belief in cosmic purpose, however fallacious, may be a necessary adaptation of our species, at least to support the population numbers necessary to maintain industrial civilization.
what if the purpose is just to make another cosmic universe?
Just to "alive"? so to speak?
Kind of like a grass blade. Its purpose, un Benoist to it, is my lawn. But it is the best blade of grass it can be.
I think I would restate what I think you mean by saying ...
"There is absolutely no need for the purpose to be praise the cosmic whatever or serve the cosmic whatever. Unless you want it to be. But its not a requirement."
As to the OP, I ask myself if a large part of this is due to atheists posting on the internet?
Not impossible. Hard to say. I tend to attribute it more in terms of my own exit from theism some 28 years ago, that is to say, more and more people finding in various practical ways that theism's claimed benefits, its claim to explain lived experience, and/or its claims to predict outcomes of certain behaviors, are questionable at best, which leads to (*gasp!*) questioning and examination of the (non-existent) evidence and then the collapse of belief. Or as I think Hitchens had it, religious faith disappears in a puff of logic.
Having all of the facts on your side is not incompatible with cosmic nihilism. I think it's understandable why someone could accept atheism and still lament the lack of cosmic purpose.
Empirically, judging by the birthrate trend in secular countries, it may also prove that belief in cosmic purpose, however fallacious, may be a necessary adaptation of our species, at least to support the population numbers necessary to maintain industrial civilization.
Birth rates are influenced by many factors, and I would expect choosing to have fewer, or no children, would be a trailing indicator rather than a leading one. I think it has more to do with the cost of having children and natural pressures. By the latter I mean that birth rates tend to fall as population increases anyway, as well as with better health, education and economic conditions. If for no other reason than that more people are competing for the same resources. It's a self-limiting problem.
Over-population was a popular dystopian narrative in the 1970s and was supposed to have consumed us by the turn of the century, but those predictions did not take into account the self-limiting dynamics of the problem. I think the lack of sufficiently addressing the climate crisis, the widespread implosion of the middle class and various extrinsic shocks like the pandemic and our nascent little WW3 are probably more likely to be our undoing than overpopulation.
That captures it wonderfully and beautifully. Living fully in the present moment, not with one foot in some other life or dimension, waiting for good things eventually, but seeing and treasuring the good we have here and now.
Thanks
I don't really garner hope in something that may be illusory when I know what I have now. It is tangible and real so i'm going to go with it! That's enough hope for me, but if there is something after - i'll enjoy that ride too
It was in response that atheism is a personal truth. Having reread the post, I appear to have misunderstood the point they were making.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist
Having all of the facts on your side is not incompatible with cosmic nihilism. I think it's understandable why someone could accept atheism and still lament the lack of cosmic purpose.
I agree. The universe does not care, and some people do not like that idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist
Empirically, judging by the birthrate trend in secular countries, it may also prove that belief in cosmic purpose, however fallacious, may be a necessary adaptation of our species, at least to support the population numbers necessary to maintain industrial civilization.
I just see it as a need for some kind of god for people who see the flaws with traditional religious beliefs.
Why do you believe it is a requirement for population control?
Why do you believe it is a requirement for population control?
Maybe I was unclear. I believe religion is necessary for population growth, not control. Without religion, a lot of people become discouraged from or disinterested in childbirth.
Whether population growth is good or bad depends on the baseline and available resources. But looking at trends, and also thinking through the psychology, I'm convinced that absent a cosmic purpose some fraction of people who would have had children, do not.
Maybe I was unclear. I believe religion is necessary for population growth, not control. Without religion, a lot of people become discouraged from or disinterested in childbirth.
Whether population growth is good or bad depends on the baseline and available resources. But looking at trends, and also thinking through the psychology, I'm convinced that absent a cosmic purpose some fraction of people who would have had children, do not.
Birth rates have historically been tied to economic stability. If you do not require children to look after you when you are an elder there is less reason for lots of kids. If your children Nate more likely to survive child birth and infancy there is less need for more children. Much of this has been studied in human geography.
I wonder just how much people or is it just non religious people wonder about a cosmic purpose. Or ever think about that or know what you mean by cosmic purpose? Or have and raise children for that cosmic purpose?
Look at this how you handle science and then you wanted to be treated seriously...
Originally Posted by Johnnysig View Post
---Real science says if there was something there already it must fit with the evidence of what we know. We know the 1LT says there's a conservation of energy. It can change forms and neither can be created or destroyed. Creation cannot happen by natural means. The 2LT has various aspects, one being the universe is winding down, entropy. Usable energy is becoming less usable, so at one point usable energy was at its max. This all (the 1LT and 2LT) points to a supernatural creation, by a supernatural creator at a certain point in which matter, space, and time were created. When I read how it can happen otherwise, ALL the doubters resort to science-fiction. Once a supernatural creation is accepted, then the next step is finding proof of what supernatural power did it. We KNOW these laws. We have NO doubts about them.---
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How you think you got around those laws regarding creation of the universe....
"Hope you learned something. Sorry, I didn't realize I had to give such an explanation to adults.
Well done, you have just proven snow flakes and galaxies can not exist, you will never grow old, and in 3 minutes, every living cellular thing on this planet that uses ADP will die. Hint, all require 2LoT.
Sorry, I didn't realize I had to give such an explanation to an adult who could research all this themselves if they were honest."
And THAT was somehow an explanation of how we got the creation of the universe naturally and how it got around the laws I gave. The subject IS the creation of the universe and how the laws applied to them. THAT though is way too much for you to comprehend, so have you little party doing all you can NOT to address it. Do the famous atheistic two-step and run from it.
Look at this how you handle science and then you wanted to be treated seriously...
Originally Posted by Johnnysig View Post
---Real science says if there was something there already it must fit with the evidence of what we know. We know the 1LT says there's a conservation of energy. It can change forms and neither can be created or destroyed. Creation cannot happen by natural means. The 2LT has various aspects, one being the universe is winding down, entropy. Usable energy is becoming less usable, so at one point usable energy was at its max. This all (the 1LT and 2LT) points to a supernatural creation, by a supernatural creator at a certain point in which matter, space, and time were created. When I read how it can happen otherwise, ALL the doubters resort to science-fiction. Once a supernatural creation is accepted, then the next step is finding proof of what supernatural power did it. We KNOW these laws. We have NO doubts about them.---
------------
How you think you got around those laws regarding creation of the universe....
"Hope you learned something. Sorry, I didn't realize I had to give such an explanation to adults.
Well done, you have just proven snow flakes and galaxies can not exist, you will never grow old, and in 3 minutes, every living cellular thing on this planet that uses ADP will die. Hint, all require 2LoT.
Sorry, I didn't realize I had to give such an explanation to an adult who could research all this themselves if they were honest."
And THAT was somehow an explanation of how we got the creation of the universe naturally and how it got around the laws I gave. The subject IS the creation of the universe and how the laws applied to them. THAT though is way too much for you to comprehend, so have you little party doing all you can NOT to address it. Do the famous atheistic two-step and run from it.
What is your background in science?
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