Why does belief in evolution threaten a belief in a creator? (salvation, genesis)
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Christians generally bristle when they hear the "E" word. They used to do the same thing when Copernicus toyed with the idea of a heliocentric universe. They didn't like it much when Columbus and his contemporaries re-discovered that the earth was a sphere (this concept made the reference to the "4 corners of the world" an untrue statement).
Actually it's the same thing taught in the bible w/o the 7 day time frame.
In this solar system, the sun was created first: Do we all agree on that?
My point is: Why can't you still believe in a God and understand the scientific fact of evolution. I do, it's easy. Belief in evolution doesn't deny the existance of God in any way.
Quite a few Christians see no problem with considering evolution the means by which God caused life on this planet to develope. We'll never know if there was also an Adam and Eve type human that appeared all of a sudden.
Christians generally bristle when they hear the "E" word. They used to do the same thing when Copernicus toyed with the idea of a heliocentric universe. They didn't like it much when Columbus and his contemporaries re-discovered that the earth was a sphere (this concept made the reference to the "4 corners of the world" an untrue statement).
The ancient Greeks knew the world was round long before Columbus (and The Bible). Columbus didn't discover anything except that there was another landmass between Europe and Asia (and that said landmass was full of "inferior" natives that the Christians could exploit and sell their "good news" to).
Quote:
My point is: Why can't you still believe in a God and understand the scientific fact of evolution. I do, it's easy. Belief in evolution doesn't deny the existance of God in any way.
Evolution does not conflict with the existence of some sort of supreme being in any way. What it does conflict with is a narrow, literal interpetation of a 2000 year old book called The Bible. It is for this reason that the fundies are struggling to find ways to try and silence and debunk real science. Otherwise they must wake up and accept their beliefs as the fairytales that they are.
What they don't seem to understand however, is that even if the universe WERE created by a supreme being, there would still be ZERO evidence that it was THEIR god that did it.
The ancient Greeks knew the world was round long before Columbus (and The Bible). Columbus didn't discover anything except that there was another landmass between Europe and Asia (and that said landmass was full of "inferior" natives that the Christians could exploit and sell their "good news" to).
Evolution does not conflict with the existence of some sort of supreme being in any way. What it does conflict with is a narrow, literal interpetation of a 2000 year old book called The Bible. It is for this reason that the fundies are struggling to find ways to try and silence and debunk real science. Otherwise they must wake up and accept their beliefs as the fairytales that they are.
What they don't seem to understand however, is that even if the universe WERE created by a supreme being, there would still be ZERO evidence that it was THEIR god that did it.
You got to slow down when reading my post Inigo. I wrote this about Columbus: "Columbus and his contemporaries re-discovered that the earth was a sphere".
Re-discovered... Of course the Greek astronomer Aristarchus proved that the earth is a sphere. But during the dark ages the Muslims were the only ones who preserved ancient knowlege.
Well I believe that the six days of creation described in Genesis were six 24 hour days..."and the evening and the morning were the first day", ect. If that doesn't describe a 24 hour day I don't know what it would describe....certainly not millions of years between each thing that was created. Every other time that the word day is mentioned in the Bible it is in reference to a 24 hour period of time. Why would the days of creation written about in Genesis be any different?
Christians generally bristle when they hear the "E" word. They used to do the same thing when Copernicus toyed with the idea of a heliocentric universe. They didn't like it much when Columbus and his contemporaries re-discovered that the earth was a sphere (this concept made the reference to the "4 corners of the world" an untrue statement).
Actually it's the same thing taught in the bible w/o the 7 day time frame.
In this solar system, the sun was created first: Do we all agree on that?
My point is: Why can't you still believe in a God and understand the scientific fact of evolution. I do, it's easy. Belief in evolution doesn't deny the existance of God in any way.
First, the "four corners of the earth" is a literary play on words meaning directional points (North/South/East/West) and should not be interpreted as meaning the bible says the earth is flat. And if they would have studied the Bible better they would see it supports a heliocentric viewpoint and a speherical Earth. But I digress....
Second, if you follow the creation account in Genesis, you'll see that "light" was created on the first day as well as The Earth. The sun and stars were created on day four. So already the order of creation between evolution and biblical creationism is off.
So why does belief in evolution threaten a belief in the Creator God of the Bible? I'll first say that belief in the ToE does not have any impact on one's salvation. Salvation is gained through belief in Jesus Christ as one's Lord & Savior and simply accepting evolution does not change this.
That being said, belief in the ToE has pulled believers away from their belief in Christ. Why? Well, the Bible teaches that sin entered the world through one man, Adam. As a result of this sin, death, both physical and spiritual, entered the creation as a punishment. So death became the last enemy of mankind. Nothing man could do on his own could fix this problem. God sent Jesus, fully human and fully God, as the perfect sacrifice to save all mankind. Jesus conqured death on the cross. Belief in Jesus absolves us and reconciles us to God and we will not face everlasting death.
However, evolution teaches there were millions of years of death before any form of modern-day man's arrival. Death was commonplace - a means to an end. Death was necessary and a means to an end, not a punishment or curse. Evolution does not allow for Adam and Eve. Evolution does not allow for 'sin' or 'right' or 'wrong' except for what is the accepted norm of a given population.
So without Adam, there is no need for Jesus. With only a fictional Garden of Eden and fictional fall of man, there only need be a fictional Jesus. If Adam isn't literal, neither is Jesus because Jesus' geneology is traced directly back to Adam through King David, Abraham and Noah. Without a literal fall of man, God (if he put evolution into motion as some presume) is indeed cruel and allowed death for no reason. The god of evolution created death with no morality behind it. This is not my God of the Bible.
Also, the Bible teaches God promises to restore the heavens and earth to their "very good" state upon Jesus' second coming - where there will be no more death, pain, suffering or tears. Now, if God instituted the ToE, what will he be restoring his creation to? A period of millions of years of death and struggle? Does that sound "very good" to you?
First, the "four corners of the earth" is a literary play on words meaning directional points (North/South/East/West) and should not be interpreted as meaning the bible says the earth is flat. And if they would have studied the Bible better they would see it supports a heliocentric viewpoint and a speherical Earth. But I digress....
Second, if you follow the creation account in Genesis, you'll see that "light" was created on the first day as well as The Earth. The sun and stars were created on day four. So already the order of creation between evolution and biblical creationism is off.
So why does belief in evolution threaten a belief in the Creator God of the Bible? I'll first say that belief in the ToE does not have any impact on one's salvation. Salvation is gained through belief in Jesus Christ as one's Lord & Savior and simply accepting evolution does not change this.
That being said, belief in the ToE has pulled believers away from their belief in Christ. Why? Well, the Bible teaches that sin entered the world through one man, Adam. As a result of this sin, death, both physical and spiritual, entered the creation as a punishment. So death became the last enemy of mankind. Nothing man could do on his own could fix this problem. God sent Jesus, fully human and fully God, as the perfect sacrifice to save all mankind. Jesus conqured death on the cross. Belief in Jesus absolves us and reconciles us to God and we will not face everlasting death.
However, evolution teaches there were millions of years of death before any form of modern-day man's arrival. Death was commonplace - a means to an end. Death was necessary and a means to an end, not a punishment or curse. Evolution does not allow for Adam and Eve. Evolution does not allow for 'sin' or 'right' or 'wrong' except for what is the accepted norm of a given population.
So without Adam, there is no need for Jesus. With only a fictional Garden of Eden and fictional fall of man, there only need be a fictional Jesus. If Adam isn't literal, neither is Jesus because Jesus' geneology is traced directly back to Adam through King David, Abraham and Noah. Without a literal fall of man, God (if he put evolution into motion as some presume) is indeed cruel and allowed death for no reason. created death with no morality behind it. This is not my God of the Bible.
Also, the Bible teaches God promises to restore the heavens and earth to their "very good" state upon Jesus' second coming - where there will be no more death, pain, suffering or tears. Now, if God instituted the ToE, what will he be restoring his creation to? A period of millions of years of death and struggle? Does that sound "very good" to you?
"The god of evolution"?????
I think you've been immersed in too much bible study my friend. I'm trying to cut to the basics. The world is obviously way older than the bible says. The fact that animimals and plants evolve to survive isn't to tough to see. Germs evolve quickly to become immune to penicillin, that is prove that thinks evolve to survive. Evolution is not a false god, it's just a scientific fact.
I think one can believe in science and spiritually.
So put that bible thing away, and search your own heart and your own observations.
I think you've been immersed in too much bible study my friend. I'm trying to cut to the basics. The world is obviously way older than the bible says. The fact that animimals and plants evolve to survive isn't to tough to see. Germs evolve quickly to become immune to penicillin, that is prove that thinks evolve to survive. Evolution is not a false god, it's just a scientific fact.
I think one can believe in science and spiritually.
So put that bible thing away, and search your own heart and your own observations.
You should read my post in the 'who believes in evolution' thread. It shines more light on my views. But briefly, adaptation/speciation or mutation do occur. I don't dispute this. What I dispute is that these culminate in molecules-to-man evolution - because they don't. The Bible teaches everything reproduces "after it's kind" and this is, in fact, what we observe. Simply because a bacteria mutates so as to not be affected by penicillin doesn't mean over billions of years it will ever mutate into anything other than a bacteria. It simply won't. And why do you think the earth is older than ~6,000 yrs? Oh, because radiometric dating tells us so. But, who tells us whether radiometric dating is accurate?
John 3:12 - "If I have spoken to you of earthlythings and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenlythings?" -- Jesus
Without Adam, there is no need for Jesus. With only a fictional Garden of Eden and fictional fall of man, there only need be a fictional Jesus. If Adam isn't literal, neither is Jesus because Jesus' geneology is traced directly back to Adam through King David, Abraham and Noah. Without a literal fall of man, God (if he put evolution into motion as some presume) is indeed cruel and allowed death for no reason. The god of evolution created death with no morality behind it. This is not my God of the Bible.
Ahh the "god of evolution" bit, and the fallacy that morals only come from The Bible.
Btw the God of your Bible allows (and even orders) death, rape, murder of children, genocide, slavery and other atrocities time and time again in the OT.
It simply won't. And why do you think the earth is older than ~6,000 yrs? Oh, because radiometric dating tells us so. But, who tells us whether radiometric dating is accurate?
John 3:12 - "If I have spoken to you of earthlythings and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenlythings?" -- Jesus
I have one question. Please try and answer this.
How did we achieve such variations in species (i.e. black/white/asian people, breeds of dogs, cats, bird, etc, etc, etc) in only 4,000 years since Noah's Ark? The most common creationist response is "Well Evolution teaches we all came from a rock." The difference is evolution teaches that these types of changes occur very slowly over the course of millions of years. 4,000, or even 6,000 years is not long enough to have the diverse ecosystem we have today. And what about animals that did not exist in the Mesopotamian region to board the ark? What about stars that are more than 6,000 light years away?
No Baptist preacher has ever been able to answer this. They always try and avoid the question the best they can. This has pushed me more towards a belief in theistic evolution.
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