Belief in God drops to 81%, an all-time low (Buddha, teaching, demons)
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It appears to be zero. So to you there was zero energy with space, matter, and time already needing to be there.
Your article says that....----"Some physicists, such as Lawrence Krauss, Stephen Hawking or Alexander Vilenkin, call or called this state "a universe from nothingness", although the zero-energy universe model requires both a matter field with positive energy and a gravitational field with negative energy to exist.[2]"
Krauss wrote a book, A Universe From Nothing but only admits when pressed, that it was really something, he just changed the definition of nothing (no thing) to have space, matter, and time already there.
Let's not leave out Hawking who does the same....
Hawking, "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing," he writes. "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist."
You don't see though your illogical statement. You started with something, something like it ALL being there already.
Let's bury you even more.
Scientist critics of the big bang theory, Alex Williams and Prof. John Hartnett, comment:
---“So is it possible that the universe just popped into existence out of the vacuum through nothing more than a quantum fluctuation? Some people think so, although they seem to conveniently forget that the laws of quantum physics would have had to already be in existence, so one could not say that the universe created itself ‘out of nothing’. Others have pointed out, however, that the lifetime of quantum events is inversely proportional to the mass of the object and this precludes any such cosmological quantum event. If a universe did pop into existence by quantum fluctuation, nobody would notice—the lifetime of a quantum event the size of our universe would be less than 10-103 seconds. Moreover, virtual particles today appear within the vacuum of space. In the primordial singularity there was no space and so no vacuum.”---
Let's bury you even more as if you're starting with space, matter, and time already there was not enough...
The universe is missing....~68% of the energy so your side just calls it dark energy as if it's there but it's never been found. Then....~27% of the matter is missing so your side just calls it dark matter as if it's there but it's never been found.
You and they, NEVER got around the laws I gave. You just showed you need to ignore them and come up with your ridiculous zero energy garbage that starts with it all there already and if that was not bad enough, it's NOT there either.
It appears to be zero. So to you there was zero energy with space, matter, and time already needing to be there.
Your article says that....----"Some physicists, such as Lawrence Krauss, Stephen Hawking or Alexander Vilenkin, call or called this state "a universe from nothingness", although the zero-energy universe model requires both a matter field with positive energy and a gravitational field with negative energy to exist.[2]"
Krauss wrote a book, A Universe From Nothing but only admits when pressed, that it was really something, he just changed the definition of nothing (no thing) to have space, matter, and time already there.
Let's not leave out Hawking who does the same....
Hawking, "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing," he writes. "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist."
You don't see though your illogical statement. You started with something, something like it ALL being there already.
Let's bury you even more.
Scientist critics of the big bang theory, Alex Williams and Prof. John Hartnett, comment:
---“So is it possible that the universe just popped into existence out of the vacuum through nothing more than a quantum fluctuation? Some people think so, although they seem to conveniently forget that the laws of quantum physics would have had to already be in existence, so one could not say that the universe created itself ‘out of nothing’. Others have pointed out, however, that the lifetime of quantum events is inversely proportional to the mass of the object and this precludes any such cosmological quantum event. If a universe did pop into existence by quantum fluctuation, nobody would notice—the lifetime of a quantum event the size of our universe would be less than 10-103 seconds. Moreover, virtual particles today appear within the vacuum of space. In the primordial singularity there was no space and so no vacuum.”---
Let's bury you even more as if you're starting with space, matter, and time already there was not enough...
The universe is missing....~68% of the energy so your side just calls it dark energy as if it's there but it's never been found. Then....~27% of the matter is missing so your side just calls it dark matter as if it's there but it's never been found.
You and they, NEVER got around the laws I gave. You just showed you need to ignore them and come up with your ridiculous zero energy garbage that starts with it all there already and if that was not bad enough, it's NOT there either.
If you only knew science.
I believe you were asked a question you didn't answer.
It appears to be zero. So to you there was zero energy with space, matter, and time already needing to be there.
Your article says that....----"Some physicists, such as Lawrence Krauss, Stephen Hawking or Alexander Vilenkin, call or called this state "a universe from nothingness", although the zero-energy universe model requires both a matter field with positive energy and a gravitational field with negative energy to exist.[2]"
Krauss wrote a book, A Universe From Nothing but only admits when pressed, that it was really something, he just changed the definition of nothing (no thing) to have space, matter, and time already there.
Let's not leave out Hawking who does the same....
Hawking, "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing," he writes. "Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist."
You don't see though your illogical statement. You started with something, something like it ALL being there already.
Let's bury you even more.
Scientist critics of the big bang theory, Alex Williams and Prof. John Hartnett, comment:
---“So is it possible that the universe just popped into existence out of the vacuum through nothing more than a quantum fluctuation? Some people think so, although they seem to conveniently forget that the laws of quantum physics would have had to already be in existence, so one could not say that the universe created itself ‘out of nothing’. Others have pointed out, however, that the lifetime of quantum events is inversely proportional to the mass of the object and this precludes any such cosmological quantum event. If a universe did pop into existence by quantum fluctuation, nobody would notice—the lifetime of a quantum event the size of our universe would be less than 10-103 seconds. Moreover, virtual particles today appear within the vacuum of space. In the primordial singularity there was no space and so no vacuum.”---
Let's bury you even more as if you're starting with space, matter, and time already there was not enough...
The universe is missing....~68% of the energy so your side just calls it dark energy as if it's there but it's never been found. Then....~27% of the matter is missing so your side just calls it dark matter as if it's there but it's never been found.
You and they, NEVER got around the laws I gave. You just showed you need to ignore them and come up with your ridiculous zero energy garbage that starts with it all there already and if that was not bad enough, it's NOT there either.
If you only knew science.
Some of us are just trying to have a good conversation.
You're trying to bury people.
The world has changed faster over the past 20 years than the past 100 years. Things will continue to change at a faster pace in the future. Why? Simply stated technology. I think everyone agrees the Internet, social media, and the alike have made the world smaller, problems bigger and information sharing seamless (good and bad info).
I think that is part of the problem. Highly impressable people can be feed good and bad information, while in the past that was not so easy to pass information.
The issue is soon to be resolved when one passes on.
Either oblivion awaits - and you won't "know" anything, ever again.
Or your consciousness will still exist. And that raises the question : "Who created you?"
If nothing, then consciousness springs into existance without cause and effect.
What may be more intriguing, what if you can be capable of creating new conscious entities?
The issue is soon to be resolved when one passes on.
Either oblivion awaits - and you won't "know" anything, ever again.
Or your consciousness will still exist. And that raises the question : "Who created you?"
If nothing, then consciousness springs into existance without cause and effect.
What may be more intriguing, what if you can be capable of creating new conscious entities?
Imagine the ramifications of that !
I truly hope it's the end when I die because if I find myself in some sort of afterlife, a few problems present themselves.
1) Nothing says the popularly asserted afterlives are as represented -- idyllic, perfect, transcendent according to each individual's preferences. They are far more likely to be SSDD (Same sh ... er, stuff, different dimension).
2) Once you're in an afterlife, what if you want out? I mean, you're already dead. You can't exactly kill yourself.
That is of course the anti-value proposition of hell, I suppose, suffer and choke and scream forever and ever and no way out. But sometimes I think the banal would be even worse, like the guy in that Night Gallery episode who was locked in a living room listening to Lawrence Welk records and watching some boorish guy present a slide show of his vacation, droning on for all eternity, lol.
At any rate I am going to be really irritated if my consciousness continues past death, but of course I will just have to do what I do in this life, deal with it. My first thought will not be that "this proves god" or "this must be the Christian heaven or hell" though.
Look at this how you handle science and then you wanted to be treated seriously...
Originally Posted by Johnnysig View Post
---Real science says if there was something there already it must fit with the evidence of what we know. We know the 1LT says there's a conservation of energy. It can change forms and neither can be created or destroyed. Creation cannot happen by natural means. The 2LT has various aspects, one being the universe is winding down, entropy. Usable energy is becoming less usable, so at one point usable energy was at its max. This all (the 1LT and 2LT) points to a supernatural creation, by a supernatural creator at a certain point in which matter, space, and time were created. When I read how it can happen otherwise, ALL the doubters resort to science-fiction. Once a supernatural creation is accepted, then the next step is finding proof of what supernatural power did it. We KNOW these laws. We have NO doubts about them.---
------------
How you think you got around those laws regarding creation of the universe....
"Hope you learned something. Sorry, I didn't realize I had to give such an explanation to adults.
Well done, you have just proven snow flakes and galaxies can not exist, you will never grow old, and in 3 minutes, every living cellular thing on this planet that uses ADP will die. Hint, all require 2LoT.
Sorry, I didn't realize I had to give such an explanation to an adult who could research all this themselves if they were honest."
And THAT was somehow an explanation of how we got the creation of the universe naturally and how it got around the laws I gave. The subject IS the creation of the universe and how the laws applied to them. THAT though is way too much for you to comprehend, so have you little party doing all you can NOT to address it. Do the famous atheistic two-step and run from it.
So there was once absolute nothing, including laws such as 2LoT, or there was an infinite existence, which can never be a closed system, so 2LoT does not apply?
And I am running from this by repeating the flaw in your argument.
You are like Monty Python's Black knight, except you are not even a knight, just the boy who cleans up after the horses.
Now what was the topic again? Oh, yes, perhaps we are seeing why religion is declining in the fact that people like Johnny are proving that religion does not really have any valid ontological arguments.
You don't see though your illogical statement. You started with something, something like it ALL being there already.
I also started from the only other logical position, from absolute nothing (including 2LoT AND a any gods). Logically, these are the only 2 possible positions, and I have answered both. Your response was we do not know, therefore god magic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnysig
Let's bury you even more.
Yes, you keep digging, but you do realize it is you in the rapidly expanding hole, and we have the keys to the Bulldozer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
Some of us are just trying to have a good conversation.
You're trying to bury people.
Good point, let him bury himself and we will get back to the topic.
The issue is soon to be resolved when one passes on.
Either oblivion awaits - and you won't "know" anything, ever again.
Or your consciousness will still exist. And that raises the question : "Who created you?"
If nothing, then consciousness springs into existance without cause and effect.
What may be more intriguing, what if you can be capable of creating new conscious entities?
Imagine the ramifications of that !
But if oblivion awaits, then we will never know. So how can it be resolved if we are oblivious to the answer?
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