Question to Other Atheist, and Non-Religious CD members (believe, debate, Buddhist)

[cncracer]

Question to Atheist and non-religious CD members.

I know we have religious zealots who will follow the non-religious to any site, but in all honesty I think if they were on a sub category where it was listed as “non-religious” most of the religious would avoid the site. Those who would not avoid it (the trolls who repeat bible verses endlessly) would show how insecure they were with their own views, and I would not feel bad about telling them so. I try to avoid the Christian site, and have only hit it by accident a few times. I think most thinking religious people would be the same with a Non-Religious site.
As non-religious CD members how do you feel on the subject?

Questions to discuss:

1- With the Christians having a Sub Category for their views, what are your feelings on a sub category for the non-religious CD members?

2- Do you see the prayer Sticky and omission of the non-religious sub category as discrimination against the non-religious members of the CD family?

2- What disadvantage do you see having our own sub category to discuss and debates issues?

3- How do you feel about a “sticky” on the P&R site requesting “prayer Requests for Any Worldview” Do you feel it should be in the Christian Sub category?

[GCSTroop]

Originally Posted by cncracer

Question to Atheist and non-religious CD members.

I know we have religious zealots who will follow the non-religious to any site, but in all honesty I think if they were on a sub category where it was listed as “non-religious” most of the religious would avoid the site. Those who would not avoid it (the trolls who repeat bible verses endlessly) would show how insecure they were with their own views, and I would not feel bad about telling them so. I try to avoid the Christian site, and have only hit it by accident a few times. I think most thinking religious people would be the same with a Non-Religious site.
As non-religious CD members how do you feel on the subject?

Questions to discuss:

1- With the Christians having a Sub Category for their views, what are your feelings on a sub category for the non-religious CD members?

2- Do you see the prayer Sticky and omission of the non-religious sub category as discrimination against the non-religious members of the CD family?

2- What disadvantage do you see having our own sub category to discuss and debates issues?

3- How do you feel about a “sticky” on the P&R site requesting “prayer Requests for Any Worldview” Do you feel it should be in the Christian Sub category?

1. As far as a sub-forum for atheists and/or non-religious people I'm not so sure if that's a good idea. I have thought about it myself but there are a few things that hold me back from it. First and foremost, I'm not a big fan of organizing everyone into different sections based on religious (or non-religious) points of view. How far do we need to take it? Do we need to have a Jewish site, a Buddhist site, a Wiccan site, a Church of Satan site??? That being said, I was on here when this was strictly the Religion forum with no Philosophy added to it OR a Christianity sub-forum. It actually became extremely difficult to keep up with the sheer number of posts on the forum and I think that's one of the main reasons it was voted into becoming a Christianity forum. Quite honestly, it's not everyday that you see an "Atheists only" thread on here and it's easy to keep up with. However, one look at the Christianity forum and you'll see that the thread count is enormous. Given that the vast majority of people on city-data are probably affiliated with the Christian religion it becomes no wonder why. So, I don't find it "special" that they have their own forum, I find it necessary. On top of that, if you ever drop by the Christianity forum, you'll find that they can't even find common ground in their beliefs so it's always buzzing. What are we going to post about on the Atheist forum? "There is no God... *crickets chirping*... *crickets chirping*"

2. I wouldn't necessarily call it discrimination. It is STILL a religion forum and while I can certainly understand where you're coming from, I don't really have a problem with it. I think I dropped by that prayer thread maybe one time and perhaps a few other times when I accidentally clicked on it. For all I really know, they could have been praying for me to find God this whole time and I would have never known it. I don't even really notice it anymore.

3. What disadvantage do I see from having our own non-religious site? I mentioned a few in my response under the number "1" but I just don't think it would be that productive. Seriously... what are we going to talk about?? Part of the reason why I come on here is because I thoroughly enjoy debating. I don't come on here to harass although I do REALLY enjoy sarcasm from time to time. The only thing it would turn into is the occassional religious person who meanders in there, drops a comment, and gets lambasted for coming onto "our" forum. Quite honestly, the way I see it, let the Christians fight amongst themselves... They're really good at it. I'd much rather have spirited debate with those Christians who like to come on the Religion forum from time to time and those of other religions than to start branching the whole thing out.

In all, I think my greatest objection is that isolation breeds ignorance. It's so common in everyday life that it's not really necessary on an internet forum. Every group stays in their own little domain, is scared to interact with people of other thoughts, philosophies, and religions because it's different. While I do find proselytizing offensive I'm not so overwrought with atheistic piousness that I don't want to communicate with any religious people whatsoever. Because, you do know that if we have our own forum and wander into this one we'll be accused of the very same thing. So, just leave it be. It's not a big deal. Let us all learn from one another as we handle the "loonies" quite well in this forum as it is.

I'm not trying to allow special countenance for Christians. They have enough freebies in society. I'm just saying that it makes it more "healthy" for the forum as a whole to have their own forum strictly due to the sheer number of people that are indeed Christians that come onto City-Data.

[Tesaje]

1. Maybe it would encourage more philosophical discussions instead of the usual degradation to the evangelists' view of hellfire and damnation that just about every thread degenerates to. At first, I enjoyed a bit of the fight, but I get tired of the same old illogical lies that some of them make against those of us who can't suspend our disbelief to get "saved". The hellbent ones will still come over, but at least it would then be off topic.

Having evangelizing off topic would at least give a reasonable moderator the right to delete those obvious posts and it would encourage more open debate on issues that matter to we non-religious. As it stands now, every attempt at an intellectual discussion degenerates into a bunch of claims that all the answers are in the bible and how we can't really think what we think. Then we go and debunk those claims and it all quickly goes off topic and around and around we go. I'm with you, I stay out of the Christian forum, but most of the fundie Christians seem to think the main forum is their evangelizing mission.

2.1 I didn't see the prayer sticky as discrimination, per se. Just not something I'm interested in. It does say it is for anyone of any views. Omission of a non-religious subforum could be seen as discriminatory, if there is enough interest in it and the site still refuses. I'm not willing to go to the inflammatory word of discrimination unless there is more direct evidence of that tho.

2.2 The only disadvantage of having a non-religious subforum would be if there isn't enough traffic to keep it interesting. I would hope that some of the religious who have something non-religious to say on topics besides god this or that would join into the discussions as I do think they have things to say that are worth listening to. The rules would need to include no evangelizing or using the Bible, Koran, or other religious tract as support for an argument.

3. If there was a non-religious subforum, I wouldn't mind it. There are several regular posters who are not Christian so I assumed it was inclusive of them. I've never ventured into that thread as that sort of thing just aggravates me, but I understand there are lots of people who get something out of it. Personally, I agree with the saying I read that goes something like: Prayer - How to appear to be actively involved in helping while doing absolutely nothing. If that sticky is just a Christian thing, then it ought to be in the Christian subforum.

I do wish the mods would move the clearly Christian debate threads over to the Christian forum. Whenever a thread starts with "Christians - what do you think ....", it belongs over in the Christian subforum.

My 3 cents...

[Tricky D]

As long as people do not harm each other, I don't care.
I dunno if I'm truly an atheist or not (nor do I care), but I try to be pragmatic with the things that I do believe.

[Miss Blue]

I agree with Troops thoughts on this subject..I would like to add a word about the Prayer Thread..For any World view..The world view should let people know that it is open to everyone, not only Christians (else I would be hesitant to post there, since by some standards, I am not a "real" christian (I don't understand the complicated concept of a trinity trinity or eternal hellfire for the sinners)

There have been many times when people of other beliefs have asked for prayers..There have also been times when non believers have asked for good thoughts of healing and comfort and some others ask us to send out good vibrations to them..IMO there is very seldom any discrimination shown on that thread..

BTW..I answered this thread because I am a non-religious member of this forum, because I believe that religions are manmade..I classify myself as a "believer"

[cncracer]

Thanks for the Post and the different view as well.

1. As far as a sub-forum for atheists and/or non-religious people I'm not so sure if that's a good idea. I have thought about it myself but there are a few things that hold me back from it. First and foremost, I'm not a big fan of organizing everyone into different sections based on religious (or non-religious) points of view. How far do we need to take it? Do we need to have a Jewish site, a Buddhist site, a Wiccan site, a Church of Satan site??? That being said, I was on here when this was strictly the Religion forum with no Philosophy added to it OR a Christianity sub-forum. It actually became extremely difficult to keep up with the sheer number of posts on the forum and I think that's one of the main reasons it was voted into becoming a Christianity forum. Quite honestly, it's not everyday that you see an "Atheists only" thread on here and it's easy to keep up with. However, one look at the Christianity forum and you'll see that the thread count is enormous. Given that the vast majority of people on city-data are probably affiliated with the Christian religion it becomes no wonder why. So, I don't find it "special" that they have their own forum, I find it necessary. On top of that, if you ever drop by the Christianity forum, you'll find that they can't even find common ground in their beliefs so it's always buzzing. What are we going to post about on the Atheist forum? "There is no God... *crickets chirping*... *crickets chirping*"

I have to say I understand the desire to have deeper debates with intelligent individuals, but I would also like to have a place to discuss grey and expanding issues of my own view of life. The ability to discuss these issues is not opened to the mixed environment of bible beating lunatics as seen on our forum.

As for sites for other religions I would say if they show a poll, as the CD poll showed, where greater than 34% of the respondents are using that forum than yes they need a place to go and discuss their issues too.

I noted on the CD poll non-religious (Atheist and Agnostics) out numbered the Christian, and Catholics, yet they have the sub Category and a special sticky post which never goes away not in their sub Category, but in the R&P forum to expose us all to their in our face prayer request.

An Atheist only thread may be a less active, but I think it would be one which had the possibility of greater enlightment.

2. I wouldn't necessarily call it discrimination. It is STILL a religion forum and while I can certainly understand where you're coming from, I don't really have a problem with it. I think I dropped by that thread maybe one time and perhaps a few other times when I accidentally clicked on it. For all I really know, they could have been praying for me to find God this whole time and I would have never known it. I don't even really notice it anymore.

I think I have had religion and discrimination pushed in my face too much not to recognize the undercurrent of discriminations. This reeks of it in my view, a sticky post on prayer on the main site when the group who wants the prayer has their own site. I may be more sensitive coming from a Jewish background, but if I have learned anything it is, if you do not let the perpetrator know they have crossed a line, than it is just a short time before they push a little further into your rights, or life.


3. What disadvantage do I see from having our own non-religious site? I mentioned a few in my response under the number "1" but I just don't think it would be that productive. Seriously... what are we going to talk about?? Part of the reason why I come on here is because I thoroughly enjoy debating. I don't come on here to harass although I do REALLY enjoy sarcasm from time to time. The only thing it would turn into is the occassional religious person who meanders in there, drops a comment, and gets lambasted for coming onto "our" forum. Quite honestly, the way I see it, let the Christians fight amongst themselves... They're really good at it. I'd much rather have spirited debate with those Christians who like to come on the Religion forum from time to time and those of other religions than to start branching the whole thing out.

I can understand this desire to debate, I love it too, but in reality there is still the P&R site to go slumming to if the desire is there. Just like the religious site seems to be in continual turmoil, I am sure a nonreligious site would have many different views on issues. It would just remove a lot of the unnecessary garble we have now.

In all, I think my greatest objection is that isolation breeds ignorance. It's so common in everyday life that it's not really necessary on an internet forum. Every group stays in their own little domain, is scared to interact with people of other thoughts, philosophies, and religions because it's different. While I do find proselytizing offensive I'm not so overwrought with atheistic piousness that I don't want to communicate with any religious people whatsoever. Because, you do know that if we have our own forum and wander into this one we'll be accused of the very same thing. So, just leave it be. It's not a big deal. Let us all learn from one another as we handle the "loonies" quite well in this forum as it is.

I agree with much of this statement, but there are times when I like to link with others who think out of the box, and not be bothered with the mass of followers and non thinkers. I was raised in the south (US) and have had religion pushed at me for most of my life. I no longer accept their right to force their views on my existence. Many of the pushers will not change in this life, and I do not feel the need to listen to their endless babble on and on for debate reasons alone.

I'm not trying to allow special countenance for Christians. They have enough freebies in society. I'm just saying that it makes it more "healthy" for the forum as a whole to have their own forum strictly due to the sheer number of people that are indeed Christians that come onto City-Data.[/quote]

Thanks for the Post and the different view as well.

1. As far as a sub-forum for atheists and/or non-religious people I'm not so sure if that's a good idea. I have thought about it myself but there are a few things that hold me back from it. First and foremost, I'm not a big fan of organizing everyone into different sections based on religious (or non-religious) points of view. How far do we need to take it? Do we need to have a Jewish site, a Buddhist site, a Wiccan site, a Church of Satan site??? That being said, I was on here when this was strictly the Religion forum with no Philosophy added to it OR a Christianity sub-forum. It actually became extremely difficult to keep up with the sheer number of posts on the forum and I think that's one of the main reasons it was voted into becoming a Christianity forum. Quite honestly, it's not everyday that you see an "Atheists only" thread on here and it's easy to keep up with. However, one look at the Christianity forum and you'll see that the thread count is enormous. Given that the vast majority of people on city-data are probably affiliated with the Christian religion it becomes no wonder why. So, I don't find it "special" that they have their own forum, I find it necessary. On top of that, if you ever drop by the Christianity forum, you'll find that they can't even find common ground in their beliefs so it's always buzzing. What are we going to post about on the Atheist forum? "There is no God... *crickets chirping*... *crickets chirping*"

I have to say I understand the desire to have deeper debates with intelligent individuals, but I would also like to have a place to discuss grey and expanding issues of my own view of life. The ability to discuss these issues is not opened to the mixed environment Moderator cut: rude and seen on our forum. As for sites for other religions I would say if they show a poll where greater than34% of the respondents are using that forum than yes they need a place to go and discuss their issues too.
I noted on the CD pole non-religious (Atheist and Agnostics) out numbered the Christian, and Catholics, yet they have the sub Category and a special sticky post which never goes away not in their sub Category, but in the R&P forum to expose us all to their in our face prayer request. It might be a less active tread is only Non religious, but I think it would be one which had the possibility of greater enlightment.

2. I wouldn't necessarily call it discrimination. It is STILL a religion forum and while I can certainly understand where you're coming from, I don't really have a problem with it. I think I dropped by that thread maybe one time and perhaps a few other times when I accidentally clicked on it. For all I really know, they could have been praying for me to find God this whole time and I would have never known it. I don't even really notice it anymore.

I think I have had it in my face too much not to recognize the undercurrent of discriminations. This reeks of it in my view, a sticky post on prayer on the main site when the group who wants the prayer has their own site. I may be more sensitive coming from a Jewish background, but if I have learned anything it is, if you do not let the perpetrator know they have crossed a line, than it is just a short time before they push a little further into your rights, or life.




3. What disadvantage do I see from having our own non-religious site? I mentioned a few in my response under the number "1" but I just don't think it would be that productive. Seriously... what are we going to talk about?? Part of the reason why I come on here is because I thoroughly enjoy debating. I don't come on here to harass although I do REALLY enjoy sarcasm from time to time. The only thing it would turn into is the occassional religious person who meanders in there, drops a comment, and gets lambasted for coming onto "our" forum. Quite honestly, the way I see it, let the Christians fight amongst themselves... They're really good at it. I'd much rather have spirited debate with those Christians who like to come on the Religion forum from time to time and those of other religions than to start branching the whole thing out.

I can understand this desire to debate, I love it too, but in reality there is still the P&R site to go slumming to if the desire is there. Just like the religious site seems to be in continual turmoil I am sure a nonreligious site would have many different views on issues. It would just remove a lot of the unnecessary garble we have now.

In all, I think my greatest objection is that isolation breeds ignorance. It's so common in everyday life that it's not really necessary on an internet forum. Every group stays in their own little domain, is scared to interact with people of other thoughts, philosophies, and religions because it's different. While I do find proselytizing offensive I'm not so overwrought with atheistic piousness that I don't want to communicate with any religious people whatsoever. Because, you do know that if we have our own forum and wander into this one we'll be accused of the very same thing. So, just leave it be. It's not a big deal. Let us all learn from one another as we handle the "loonies" quite well in this forum as it is.

I agree with much of this statement, but there are times when I like to link with others who think out of the box, and not be bothered with the mass of followers and non thinkers. I was raised in the south (US) and have had religion pushed at me for most of my life. I no longer accept their right to force their views on my existence. Many of the pushers will not change in this life, and I do not feel the need to listen to their endless babble on and on for debate reasons alone.

I'm not trying to allow special countenance for Christians. They have enough freebies in society. I'm just saying that it makes it more "healthy" for the forum as a whole to have their own forum strictly due to the sheer number of people that are indeed Christians that come onto City-Data.[/quote]

[SIZE=3]In this I am not in disagreement, I think it is good to have a P&R site to mix on, I just think it would be better to also have a non Religious site to debate issues other than bible verses on. I see healthy environments with both sides are treated with equal respect, and I am afraid this is not what I see here.[/SIZE]

[weatherologist]

Originally Posted by cncracer

[color=black]
2. I wouldn't necessarily call it discrimination. It is STILL a religion forum and while I can certainly understand where you're coming from, I don't really have a problem with it. I think I dropped by that thread maybe one time and perhaps a few other times when I accidentally clicked on it. For all I really know, they could have been praying for me to find God this whole time and I would have never known it. I don't even really notice it anymore.

I think I have had religion and discrimination pushed in my face too much not to recognize the undercurrent of discriminations. This reeks of it in my view, a sticky post on prayer on the main site when the group who wants the prayer has their own site. I may be more sensitive coming from a Jewish background, but if I have learned anything it is, if you do not let the perpetrator know they have crossed a line, than it is just a short time before they push a little further into your rights, or life.


[/font][/SIZE]

Sorry, for sticking my nose in where I was not invited, but I wanted to make a comment on this one...

As blue stated, many people have come to the prayer thread, even an atheist. This individual came requesting prayer for a relative who was a Christian. When the Christian sub-forum was first started, the prayer thread was moved with it. At that time, many posters, myself included, felt that it should be left in the R&P forum so that NOONE would feel that they were unable to enter. That is when it got sent back. I also argued that the Christian sub-forum was unnecessary. Believe me (as you know very well), just because it is labeled "christian", it will not keep others from jumping in and giving their opinions. The same will happen in an atheist-only forum. You just can't keep people from posting their opinions. All you can do it choose not to read them.

<>< weather...

PS: I felt it was more of a discrimination to not include it on the R&P forum.

[cncracer]

Originally Posted by weatherologist

Sorry, for sticking my nose in where I was not invited, but I wanted to make a comment on this one...

As blue stated, many people have come to the prayer thread, even an atheist. This individual came requesting prayer for a relative who was a Christian. When the Christian sub-forum was first started, the prayer thread was moved with it. At that time, many posters, myself included, felt that it should be left in the R&P forum so that NOONE would feel that they were unable to enter. That is when it got sent back. I also argued that the Christian sub-forum was unnecessary. Believe me (as you know very well), just because it is labeled "christian", it will not keep others from jumping in and giving their opinions. The same will happen in an atheist-only forum. You just can't keep people from posting their opinions. All you can do it choose not to read them.

>< weather...

PS: I felt it was more of a discrimination to not include it on the R&P forum.

Weather,
I also appreciate your input, but I have to disagree with you on the prayer issue. It needs to be in the Christian category. It is linked to them in every post I have seen, and in most cases will carry one of the fish symbols to boot.
I see it as that inch by inch push Christians seem compelled to do, and as often as you post on that thread I think in truth you recognize it too. That said I don’t resent your input. I think it is good for you to know some resent what I see as discrimination, and others see as just rudness, from the religious and the religious right.

[june 7th]

Moderator cut:


In the interests of fairness and feeling that people deserve a definitive answer, the issue of whether or not an "Athiest Subforum" is warranted has been presented to the Senior Mods and Administrator. As I mentioned to you previously, cncracer, not every religion and/or ideology can necessarily warrant their own subforum.


I have followed up with this request, (with both my co-moderator and Senior Mods and Admin.) and will let you know what the final answer is when it has been arrived at/determined.

-June

[Miss Blue]

Thanks June for letting everyone know that the request is being considered..So it seems we can all practice a little patience now