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I think the kid is relating his experience. That doesn't mean it has any real connection to a reality outside of ourselves. It could but it doesn't have to be.
As far as the outside corroboration I can't tell how accurate it is. The way a conversation like that might go would likely include some leading. Then there is the fallibility of memory and filling in the blanks.
Let's say we could verify he said those things accurately and without prompting. He very well could have heard someone say his dad died while he was under. He could have heard someone talking about it. He was a child close to death. It may have come up. All of that could have been a coincidence. How many things did he report that didn't mean anything? Did he see anyone there that was still alive?
I like stories like these. I think it more tells us about ourselves tho and not so much the universe.
Last edited by L8Gr8Apost8; 08-11-2022 at 05:24 PM..
That you continue trying to discuss " the masses" and what they believe when my point is about the experience of one specific instance in which information was relayed that the kid would have had no way of knowing if in fact the claim is true tells me that you either dont get the topic or just dont want to address it specifically. If true, none of this topic is about hallucinations or beliefs that can be written off as merely the wild imaginings of the mind. It would have outside corroboration of its authenticity.
How one deals with the info as an atheist is the topic of the thread. You seem to choose to deal with it by pretending the topic is something other than what I outlined.
No. I'm telling you how this atheist would look at it.
Sorry I'm confused.
How did he accurately describe two people who were miscarriages?
These were 'people' who didn't even make it to term in the womb?
He related to her that he met two souls that were her miscarried children, and it turns out she had had two miscarried children. Without quibbling over what a miscarried soul would look like, if this were true, you wouldnt consider it an accurate description to describe her two miscarries when she actually had two miscarries that were unknown to him?
No. I'm telling you how this atheist would look at it.
None of us can speak for all atheists.
Aside from your trying to insist I desperately want to believe this when I said nothing of the sort and I made the topic about how others view this info,Im not asking anyone to speak for anyone but themselves. I have simply asked how any atheist would go about making sense of this? By rejecting it without a sniff of wonder? By assuming that anything that didnt fit their worldview must be lies and hoaxes? By wondering if maybe they should give their worldview some further consideration?
That is the only point here. Would there really be no interest in whether this was true and the ramifications of it to your worldview?
I wouldn't entertain the notion of a creator god, as it's inconsistent with the universe we live in.
I could and do entertain the notion of demigods, basically very advanced beings that have powers that appear supernatural to us, but are entirely legal according to the laws of physics and the universe.
NDEs suggest a transcendent realm, a realm inaccessible to the senses. I don't entertain this as it's not falsifiable. The transcendent is the playground of whimsy and imagination, and there's no evidence for it.
Of course there is. I listed the possibility of lying myself. Im just interested in whether atheists would give any thought to someone who was verifiably near death and had to be revived multiple times having claimed as an 8 yr old kid to have seen things that would be supported by outside evidence if he isnt lying, and would give credence to religious belief if it is true.
The thread is more about how atheists choose to deal with information they may not like.
If anyone does not like information, they will automatically engage one of the many cognitive biases to help them. Atheists are not immune.
The point is not whether this proves God so much as it is how atheists would respond to it. Is there any inquisitiveness about it, any willingness to explore whether this might provide them some evidence to consider?
I have looked, the different cultural experiences suggest they are a cultural product of the mind, not genuine visits to heaven or hell. And there was also a science paper that suggested NDEs are constructed after the event, unfortunately I did not read it at the time, and now I can not find it.
The thing is, if an atheist has not investigated NDEs, then they have insufficient information to move them one way or the other. One should only use information that one has.
Oh I do question the story. The point here is how atheists deal with it,or more to the point, would they even bother giving this any due consideration, not whether it is actually provably true. I am aware that in many ways conservative Christians with a religious agenda are about the least trustworthy people out there.
As there are many life after death stories out there, if we do not take those seriously, why should we this one? It is like creationist arguments, eventually you just stop investigating the many claims.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NatesDude
As far as awareness continuing after the death of our physical bodies, from a scientific stance I really dont see a problem with this. Science teaches us that in the end everything is just seemingly solidified energy. I dont have a problem accepting that energy can continue after the demise of the physical body.
That energy continues is not the problem, it is how it is organized that is. How would this conscious energy field work, how would it stay coherent, how would it sense it's surroundings with no eyes, ears, fingers, etc?
He related to her that he met two souls that were her miscarried children, and it turns out she had had two miscarried children. Without quibbling over what a miscarried soul would look like, if this were true, you wouldnt consider it an accurate description to describe her two miscarries when she actually had two miscarries that were unknown to him?
I would need 100% proof that this child did not know about the miscarriages, and that is impossible to confirm. Perhaps Dad said something as he lay dying in the wreckage. We will never know.
He related to her that he met two souls that were her miscarried children, and it turns out she had had two miscarried children. Without quibbling over what a miscarried soul would look like, if this were true, you wouldnt consider it an accurate description to describe her two miscarries when she actually had two miscarries that were unknown to him?
No. How could it be an 'accurate description' other than he met 2 'souls' and coincidentally some person had two miscarriages.
Not to put too fine a point on it, miscarriages happen for a reason: because the fetus is not going to be viable. Are we saying all none viable fetuses go on to have 'souls' that chat to relatives after we die? Heaven must full of a whole load of unfortunates in that case.
Sorry, the more I consider the story, the more it sounds like a whole load of hooey.
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