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every time an atheist says they don't believe because ___________ (whatever the reason, xyz)
that is an atheist describing their choice not to believe.
same for any other belief. I believe ______ because ______
choice is "an act of selecting or making a decision when faced with two or more possibilities."
choosing is making that decision, for whatever reason or reasons a person may have.
for instance in post 144 just above the atheist gave their reasons for choosing not to believe:
the atheist stated they "prefer _____" (Prefer is "a greater liking for one alternative over another")
and the atheist stated their reasons for that choice and that preference, and they went on to list some of their additional beliefs:
their belief that "it is more ______"
and their belief that "it has "the best ______"
I actually agree with you...for a change. Belief is a choice. But it is a choice based on some input that leads one to choose a certain belief or path. However, whatever the choice is that they make...does not mean that they are right. The greatest villains in world history made choices in what they believed to be the right thing to do. Pol Pot and Adolf didn't go around thinking, "I believe in ______, and I'm wrong".
I actually agree with you...for a change. Belief is a choice. But it is a choice based on some input that leads one to choose a certain belief or path. However, whatever the choice is that they make...does not mean that they are right. The greatest villains in world history made choices in what they believed to be the right thing to do. Pol Pot and Adolf didn't go around thinking, "I believe in ______, and I'm wrong".
yes, a belief is something which a person believes to be true.
for whatever reasons abc or xyz that a person may have for that belief; those reasons tend to be additional beliefs, as seen in posts in this thread.
I was lucky, I one day just realized I no longer believed. I was not a choice to leave.
So you hadn't been toying with the idea in your mind? Hadn't thought about it all? Suddenly it just popped into your head.
Here's why I'm skeptical. It seems a little unreasonable to criticize religionists for believing without adequate cause, and then say that it's okay for us to not believe...without cause.
yes, a belief is something which a person believes to be true.
for whatever reasons abc or xyz that a person may have for that belief; those reasons tend to be additional beliefs, as seen in posts in this thread.
And what is true is what is true for that person who chooses to believe. It is not some kind of universal truth for everyone.
Yes, reasons that drive belief can be different things. That still does not negate choice to believe or not believe.
every time an atheist says they don't believe because ___________ (whatever the reason, xyz)
that is an atheist describing their choice not to believe.
That is not a choice, that is an evaluation. If I was to ignore any evidence, THAT would be a choice to ignore the evidence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
same for any other belief. I believe ______ because ______
Because you say so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
choice is "an act of selecting or making a decision when faced with two or more possibilities."
Correct, but I do not choose to believe in gods, just as I do not choose not to believe in gods.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
choosing is making that decision, for whatever reason or reasons a person may have.
According to you. But as I never chose to be an atheist, I simply realized I was one, then that is a flaw in your argument.
You believe and disbelief many things without choosing to believe in them or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
for instance in post 144 just above the atheist gave their reasons for choosing not to believe:
the atheist stated they "prefer _____" (Prefer is "a greater liking for one alternative over another")
and the atheist stated their reasons for that choice and that preference, and they went on to list some of their additional beliefs:
Correct, that is my choice on how to evaluate claims, it is not a choice on whether I should believe in gods or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
their belief that "it is more ______"
and their belief that "it has "the best ______"
So you hadn't been toying with the idea in your mind? Hadn't thought about it all? Suddenly it just popped into your head.
It was like suddenly realizing I had a hole in my bucket, and the water had been flowing out for some time. It was a subconscious evaluation to conscious realization.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
Here's why I'm skeptical. It seems a little unreasonable to criticize religionists for believing without adequate cause, and then say that it's okay for us to not believe...without cause.
But, everyone is different.
I have a cause to not believe. I do not simply choose, 'should I believe in a god today'. Can you suddenly decide to believe something you do not now believe? If not, then how can it be a choice?
I believed at one point because I accepted many aspects of the assorted elements that comprised the belief system I had been exposed. But as I spent time investigating the elements of claim, and one by one I found them faulty, I realized one day that my belief had slipped away because there was no good reason left to support it. It wasn't really a choice to believe nor disbelieve in God. Instead the lack of belief in the claim was the natural result of the lack of evidence. I can't choose to believe in spite of a lack of evidence, that would require something broken in my brain to have such cognitive dissonance. People who claim to believe do because either they believe the reasons to believe are strong enough to accept God exists or they have mental wiring requiring they have a vulnerability to accept regardless of logic. I don't really think belief is so much a choice as it is the result of a process of reviewing. Not accepting the evidence is not the same as believing the opposite.
The problem is not what can be explained, it is when theists claim a god (or for spiritualists an intelligent higher order) is responsible for what can not be explained.
For me, I prefer to compare what is the more probable of alternate options, and what has the best explanatory power.
I'm all good with that. If not for the experiences I have had, i'd likely be in the same shoes as you. Alas, I have had those experiences and they are a part of me hence my position.
Just take into account that the experiences you have not had, that others have had doesn't invalid them for the individual who has had them. And, these individuals not all of them, are coming from a position whereby there is no deep seeded requirement to have or expectation for a god, but they still ocurred and shaped their view. For them, the possibility of god is the best explanation to circle the square of their experience.
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