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People will become more intelligent in the future, which has always been the hope and will have no need for fables. Facts and science will more and more replace the superstition and fiction.
That is the hope. Sometimes I wonder if we are making any real progress toward it.
"Real" progress would mean that we aren't a hair-trigger away from potentially species-ending global nuclear conflagration based on whether or not one insane person decides to use tactical nukes out of desperation, a probability Ukraine currently judges to be "high" and which many experts don't see a way that can happen without global escalation -- or at least where global escalation is going to be very hard to prevent.
And it isn't just that -- behind that we have queued up a number of other massive problems -- climate change, the rise of fascism and fascistic ideation around the world, widespread famine (and energy delivery system collapse) leaking out of the third world and into the west, refugee crises and so on.
My point is not to depress people with this laundry list, it is just that it may well be that our progress toward being more "intelligent" or really self aware and self controlled as a species, is quite likely too slow to allow us to handle our technology intelligently. Indeed, there is a plausible theory that one of the reasons there is no evidence yet or contact from other intelligent civilizations is in part because many of them don't get past an evolutionary "hard stop" similar to the one we appear to exist in right now. They keep wiping themselves out or setting themselves back a thousand years over and over again.
Of course religion comes along and leverages this and says it means we need more religion -- when in fact religion and related forms of tribalism are actually a big part of the problem. The only sense in which religion is part of the solution isn't really religion so much as generic self-awareness, mindfulness and self-control which happens to be facilitated by some religious traditions such as parts of Buddhism and Taoism.
People will become more intelligent in the future, which has always been the hope and will have no need for fables. Facts and science will more and more replace the superstition and fiction.
People will always need stories to spiritually find their way, and all the knowledge in the world can still leave you spiritually lost, knowing something is missing -- a hole that remains hungry. That is why for all of our technological advances over the millions of years people have been advancing on the planet, we still look for ways to worship that which is greater than ourselves.
People will become more intelligent in the future, which has always been the hope and will have no need for fables. Facts and science will more and more replace the superstition and fiction.
This may be one of the articles of faith of atheists.
But human intelligence cannot change over time. Ancient peoples were capable of engineering complex and monumental structures that we still marvel at today. And those structures had everything to do with their superstitions.
If anything, our technology is starting to replace the human brain and will have a stultifying effect on humans and their culture. People in rich countries are increasingly unable to function without apps telling them what to do and when to do it. They worship their technology and are in thrall to Big Tech.
This may be one of the articles of faith of atheists.
Yes, I am not sure many of those leaving religions will be more rational, they will just turn to conspiracy theories.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aries63
But human intelligence cannot change over time. Ancient peoples were capable of engineering complex and monumental structures that we still marvel at today. And those structures had everything to do with their superstitions.
But those structures were not built using their superstitions, they were built by intelligence and experience. And the use of rational tools has improved. Perhaps the problem is that the use of these tools are not oft taught.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aries63
If anything, our technology is starting to replace the human brain and will have a stultifying effect on humans and their culture. People in rich countries are increasingly unable to function without apps telling them what to do and when to do it. They worship their technology and are in thrall to Big Tech.
Also true for spirituality, the number of people I have seen using their phones on a beautiful day instead of looking at the world around them.
Also true for spirituality, the number of people I have seen using their phones on a beautiful day instead of looking at the world around them.
They use apps to guide them into nature. They can't take a walk in the woods without following a GPS, or looking at reviews of the trail first.
And I'm not excluding "people of faith" from this either. They have as much reverence for their technology (if not more) than they do for any gods. They sell their souls to Big Tech as much as any atheist.
I ruined a budding friendship when I made a skeptical remark to someone about her Apple Watch, after she spoke in such reverent tones about its life-saving potential. It was as if I committed some blasphemy, to question this (at the time) new technology. She didn't talk to me for a week after I sinned against her.
Humans are rapidly being replaced by robots. We will make ourselves obsolete before we figure out what our purpose is in the world. Kids are becoming incapable of learning anything but how to use a phone. There was a lot of talk a few years ago about hybrid human-robots, with people getting technology implanted to improve their functionality. But "smart" technology will drive us even faster over the cliff.
They use apps to guide them into nature. They can't take a walk in the woods without following a GPS, or looking at reviews of the trail first.
And I'm not excluding "people of faith" from this either. They have as much reverence for their technology (if not more) than they do for any gods. They sell their souls to Big Tech as much as any atheist.
I ruined a budding friendship when I made a skeptical remark to someone about her Apple Watch, after she spoke in such reverent tones about its life-saving potential. It was as if I committed some blasphemy, to question this (at the time) new technology. She didn't talk to me for a week after I sinned against her.
Humans are rapidly being replaced by robots. We will make ourselves obsolete before we figure out what our purpose is in the world. Kids are becoming incapable of learning anything but how to use a phone. There was a lot of talk a few years ago about hybrid human-robots, with people getting technology implanted to improve their functionality. But "smart" technology will drive us even faster over the cliff.
I can understand the sentiment, but your generalizations are only true for a narrow demographic; it may be a growing demographic -- but so far as I've observed -- and I live in "techie land" (Seattle-Bellevue metro region), there is a visibly large segment of society that can still walk down the streets, hike the trails, drive their cars without a gadget -- other than possibly on their dashboard in the case of cars. For every one like your "friend" with her Apple watch, I would guess there are at least 100 that can navigate without technical devices. I would bet money that if her life were truly threatened, her first words would be: "Oh God!"
As for being replaced by AI, don't be so sure. DH told me this morning that Amazon dropped its adventure into robotics and would no longer be doing field studies. That was predictable. I have been seeing these field studies in my travels, and they are hilarious. It was absurd to think that they would replace people. I had one follow me a half block down the sidewalk one day and then just stop. I stood and watched it for a few minutes but it did nothing, and no one came to attend it. I walked a few blocks down the street and looked back and it was still sitting there, alone -- lifeless.
But back to the topic of growing atheism: I think if technology was going to replace our human need to worship a force greater than ourselves, it would've done so before now. After all, an ape using a stem from a plant to draw out insects from a hole was a form of technology. People have been designing tools to help them in their daily lives for millions of years, but we've never found evidence of an altar being built to the god of arrows, spears, or catapults. No, we worshiped war gods.
People will always need a god; some just do not know it yet. Remark on the comment from WWI: "There are no atheists in a bunker."
Remark on the comment from WWI: "There are no atheists in a bunker."
A popular trope, but somewhere between untrue and meaningless. Drop a Christian and an Atheist from the 100th floor of some skyscraper and I suspect both will scream like little girls on the way down. They would both see their dooms.
People will always need a god; some just do not know it yet. Remark on the comment from WWI: "There are no atheists in a bunker."
Yawn. Not this lame argument again. To begin, how would anyone know? It is arrogant of any one to presume knowing what an atheist under fire would believe or not believe.
And if the religious really believed, they would not stay in fox holes, they would risk their lives for knowing their death would mean a quicker journey to their afterlife they somehow know they will be going to. For some strange reason, most theists seem to want to cling on to this life.
A popular trope, but somewhere between untrue and meaningless. Drop a Christian and an Atheist from the 100th floor of some skyscraper and I suspect both will scream like little girls on the way down. They would both see their dooms.
I've never really understood why Christians go with the "no atheists in foxholes or bunkers" trope.
Yes, we get that everybody is scared crapless in a foxhole or a bunker and is hoping to survive.
But whether or not you survive is completely random. The shells and bullets that are coming at you have no idea if you are a believer or not.
So,m my corollary is this. "You are correct. There ARE no atheists in foxholes. But unfortunately, there aren't any Gods in them either."
I've never really understood why Christians go with the "no atheists in foxholes or bunkers" trope.
Yes, we get that everybody is scared crapless in a foxhole or a bunker and is hoping to survive.
But whether or not you survive is completely random. The shells and bullets that are coming at you have no idea if you are a believer or not.
So,m my corollary is this. "You are correct. There ARE no atheists in foxholes. But unfortunately, there aren't any Gods in them either."
I think the better question is not what they do in a foxhole, but what they do after being free of foxhole situations. In panic, people will do almost anything.
A couple of times in the past few years when I actually thought I might die, I didn't start praying.
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