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it seems to me that if someone actually is "trying to squeeze as much happiness" out of each day that they can (which the OP urges), then they wouldn't view planet earth and all life as a "gigantic cesspool" (which the OP also expresses).
Seriously! I find such posts (and people) to be totally depressing. Thankfully I don't have folks like that in my life.
I'm not the staunchest atheist, but when I was in that kind of situation (what appeared to be imminent death with nothing I could do) my mind went only to hoping everything would be okay. I didn't make any appeals or prayers to any god or gods, spirits or overlookers. I didn't even think about my reaction until weeks later, but it confirmed that I don't believe.
There is a weird idea among some Christians that every atheist is secretly a believer who is pretending. It's just not the case. I think they are just trying to comfort themselves that everyone thinks the same as them, even privately, because people who think differently are a threat to the idea that it is true.
I'm not the staunchest atheist, but when I was in that kind of situation (what appeared to be imminent death with nothing I could do) my mind went only to hoping everything would be okay. I didn't make any appeals or prayers to any god or gods, spirits or overlookers. I didn't even think about my reaction until weeks later, but it confirmed that I don't believe.
There is a weird idea among some Christians that every atheist is secretly a believer who is pretending. It's just not the case. I think they are just trying to comfort themselves that everyone thinks the same as them, even privately, because people who think differently are a threat to the idea that it is true.
Yes, it's that old "there are no atheists in foxholes" meme where christians tell us they know how we think more than we ourselves know. Overbearing.
It's nice to read such thoughts being expressed by an older person. Very little frustrated me more in the past than when I'd air very similar sentiments, only to be met with a dismissive 'you'll grow out of your existential angst' (or similar). There's no such thing as outgrowing the truth. One thing I have learned to do at my oh-so-advanced age of 37 is that I'm generally able distract myself from dwelling on that truth more effectively. I still read books on a daily basis, but I gravitate less to the more philosophical material that used to dominate my reading list. That being said, thrillobyte, I recommend the book 'The Conspiracy Against The Human Race' by Thomas Ligotti. It's of the same spirit as the thoughts you expressed in the latter half of your OP.
Last edited by Matt Marcinkiewicz; 09-11-2023 at 11:24 AM..
As an unapologetic atheist I am a bit envious of those with faith and their belief that they will be reunited with a lost loved one. That must be very comforting at such a terrible time. Me? I think the entire concept of Heaven and Hell is not unlike what mom told me about getting gifts from Santa at Christmas. No I do not believe if you are good you go to this Heaven and if you are bad you will burn in eternity in Hell. Common sense tells me that is nonsense. When my loved ones die they are gone. Forever. And I will always believe this.
(disclaimer: I'm not an atheist.)
Agreed. It is absolute nonsense.
Is that your only test, though?
Either you believe in "heaven and hell", or nothing at all?
Ever try wandering down other paths to see if there is an alternative?
Just thought I'd throw that out there.
thrillobyte... if you do not believe you will see your loved ones again, you're just going to have to learn to accept it. If you find it hard to accept, if the love in your heart is calling to you, perhaps you are not quite as done with your journey to finding truth as much as you think you are done. Just keep the door open to other possibilities. If you push your love for your loved ones AWAY from you, you are just slamming that door. Keep the door open, friend. Death is sometimes a gift. As much as it doesn't seem that way, I know how "offensive" that may sound to some. But sometimes....you wind up seeing more than you did before, and perspectives change.
Anyway, we believe what we believe. And it comes from within us. When we push away what others WANT us to believe or try to tell us is the truth, if we just keep our minds and hearts open and be honest with our thoughts, (mind) and what we truly, honestly feel (heart), that's the best way to finding our path.
peace,
sparrow
edited to add: I'm not sure if my post is ok here? I usually don't post on this forum. I'm not rying to convert you thrillobyte. I just share stuff, knowing everyone is on their own road. If this type of post is not appropriate, just let me know. Thanks. (sorry)
Last edited by .sparrow.; 09-11-2023 at 02:48 PM..
And from here on, I look at all the religions to know what they have to say what's after death?
When I was a lukewarm Christian - barely a Christian at all, really - I undertook a decades-long, intense study of afterlife phenomena. I joined every reputable organization, both in the U.S. and Europe, that investigates afterlife phenomena. I ordered so many books, dating from the early 1800s to the present, that the Post Office must have wondered what on earth I was doing. It reached the point that the bibliography of a scholarly book would seldom have anything I hadn't already read. Even after the craziness is filtered out, the consistent testimonial evidence from sane and credible people is staggering - apparitions, deathbed visions, mediumistic communications, cross-correspondences, book tests, After-Death Communications, Near-Death Experiences and other phenomena.
My interest was spurred in part by After-Death Communications from my mother and father, both of whom died before I was 18. My father delivered a six-word message and nothing more, ever: "I'm dead but I'm not dead." Later in life, I experienced compelling After-Death Communications from my late wife (entirely objective ones, both on the day of her death and about a month later), her sister, an elderly neighbor, and a housekeeper I barely knew. (On the other hand, I had nothing from my brother, sister or others I was frankly hoping would contact me.) All of the After-Death Communications I have experienced are entirely consistent with tens or hundreds of thousands of others that have been well-documented.
At some point in my quest, I reached what was probably a 99% conviction that consciousness survives death - a convicfion I would say is now as close to 100% as it could be while leaving room for rational uncertainty. It was this conviction that caused me to take a closer look at and eventually return to Christianity. My afterlife convictions certainly aren't inconsistent with Christian teachings, but like most religions Christianity doesn't provide too much of real substance. If my quest had been limited to a comparitive study of religions, I believe my convictions would be much weaker.
When I was a lukewarm Christian - barely a Christian at all, really - I undertook a decades-long, intense study of afterlife phenomena. I joined every reputable organization, both in the U.S. and Europe, that investigates afterlife phenomena. I ordered so many books, dating from the early 1800s to the present, that the Post Office must have wondered what on earth I was doing. It reached the point that the bibliography of a scholarly book would seldom have anything I hadn't already read. Even after the craziness is filtered out, the consistent testimonial evidence from sane and credible people is staggering - apparitions, deathbed visions, mediumistic communications, cross-correspondences, book tests, After-Death Communications, Near-Death Experiences and other phenomena.
My interest was spurred in part by After-Death Communications from my mother and father, both of whom died before I was 18. My father delivered a six-word message and nothing more, ever: "I'm dead but I'm not dead." Later in life, I experienced compelling After-Death Communications from my late wife (entirely objective ones, both on the day of her death and about a month later), her sister, an elderly neighbor, and a housekeeper I barely knew. (On the other hand, I had nothing from my brother, sister or others I was frankly hoping would contact me.) All of the After-Death Communications I have experienced are entirely consistent with tens or hundreds of thousands of others that have been well-documented.
At some point in my quest, I reached what was probably a 99% conviction that consciousness survives death - a convicfion I would say is now as close to 100% as it could be while leaving room for rational uncertainty. It was this conviction that caused me to take a closer look at and eventually return to Christianity. My afterlife convictions certainly aren't inconsistent with Christian teachings, but like most religions Christianity doesn't provide too much of real substance. If my quest had been limited to a comparitive study of religions, I believe my convictions would be much weaker.
What were these "reputable organizations that investigate afterlife phenomena?" I've never heard of one that could be called "reputable."
How do I face it? I face it the same way I face every other terrible fact about reality. I accept it. That doesn’t mean giving up. It just means accepting what I cannot change.
For my part, I find people who can't bring themselves to face the ultimate nature of reality to be depressingly weak-minded and delusional.
the "ultimate nature of reality" is unknown.
so all that you have and are left with, is your own personal opinion, view, speculation, belief. What you believe and speculate is the "ultimate nature of reality." Your own beliefs about the unknown.
not the same at all. big difference.
so view expressed in post above is saying is that people who hold different beliefs than their own, about that which is unknown, they label as "depressingly weak minded and delusional."
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