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Old 08-06-2008, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
1,802 posts, read 8,161,825 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b. frank View Post
What if I don't believe in karma? Is that a deal-breaker?
Karma is a sanskrit word meaning "action". Karma in Buddhism more or less means cause and effect. If one makes good "causes" then there will be good consequences. Buddhism empowers one to take control of their own life and their own destiny. Buddhists do not believe there is some omnipotent entity (god) who is choreographing our lives. We are responsible for whatever happens - good or bad. If something happens that appears negative we can use that experience to create something positive out of it. "Turning poison into medicine".
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Old 08-06-2008, 11:30 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janetvj View Post
Karma is a sanskrit word meaning "action". Karma in Buddhism more or less means cause and effect. If one makes good "causes" then there will be good consequences.
Well, no problem, then. I believe in that.

Quote:
Buddhism empowers one to take control of their own life and their own destiny. Buddhists do not believe there is some omnipotent entity (god) who is choreographing our lives. We are responsible for whatever happens - good or bad. If something happens that appears negative we can use that experience to create something positive out of it. "Turning poison into medicine".
Exactly the reasons that I am interested.
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Old 08-06-2008, 07:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b. frank View Post
Well, no problem, then. I believe in that.



Exactly the reasons that I am interested.
With Zen and Tao the concept of karma becomes more of a matter of perception than anything else. For me doing what I feel is good just makes me feel good and doing what I feel is bad makes me feel bad.

I think certain brands of taoism are quite appealing for people who like to use their head.
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Old 08-06-2008, 07:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coosjoaquin View Post
For me doing what I feel is good just makes me feel good and doing what I feel is bad makes me feel bad.
That's pretty much the extent of the basis for my moral code as well. It seems like Zen supports that.

Quote:
I think certain brands of taoism are quite appealing for people who like to use their head.
Like which ones?
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Old 08-06-2008, 08:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b. frank View Post
Like which ones?
I'd have to take out my books and(shoddily) translate them from Spanish to English but the main gist is that we are conditioned to think that true enlightenment must come after inordinately hard and tedious rituals while anyone who is using their heads to skip some steps will be accused of cheating.

Because of that, many eastern Dao masters would(and still do) go out of their way to make their teachings and training extra extra hard. It gives them some rep and makes them popular because everyone feels that they are better than others. After all, if you are trying to achieve some form of enlightenment and you are not being worked to the bone with mind numbing tasks then you feel that you aren't making progress.

Of course not everyone buys into the assumption that such an approach is better, they follow their own path to enlightenment and finally they learn how to do something which every person should be able to do: how to beat a boxing bear.

Argh I really need my books, if only I had my room back already.
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Old 08-07-2008, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
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I practice Nichiren Buddhism which appears to be quite different from other forms. We are not taught to rid our lives of desire, but instead believe that whatever we desire we can make happen. To have desires is to be human - attaining enlightenment is, after all, a desire in and of itself. For anyone who maybe interested, here is a link to a web-site that would explain it much better than I can.

Soka Gakkai International : Buddhism > Nichiren Daishonin (http://www.sgi.org/buddhism/origins/nichiren.html - broken link)
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Old 08-07-2008, 10:22 AM
 
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It you find Buddhist philosophy appealing, as I do, but don't necessarily need to call yourself "Buddhist", try reading some American Buddhist writers, like Goldstein or Hagan (I think that's spelled right, not sure). In particular, Hagan wrote a little book called "Buddhism Plain and Simple" that I found refreshing in its lack of any pretentions whatsoever about gods or other trappings that are involved in some of the Eastern sects.
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Old 08-07-2008, 10:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b. frank View Post
To explain: If Buddhism is simply following the "Eightfold Path", then I think I already am a Buddhist.
I know there are a lot of "right" things that you are supposed to do, and that looks like a lot of dogma, but it really is not as far as I can tell.
I mean, Buddhism trusts me to know what "right" means, right?
It is not based on any deities and there appear to be no solid rules to being a Buddhist. I like the idea of using the Eightfold Path as a tool for coping with life. Still, I don't believe in any gods, nor do I believe in souls or reincarnation. I have little use for Tibetan Buddhism or any existing form of Buddhism, but none of those forms define Buddhism, right?
Aren't they all pretty much local interpretations of the philosophy that don't claim to have the knowledge of what is right for all people?
I'm just asking because I think I may be a Buddhist if there are no prerequisites for belief in the supernatural or acknowledgement that the existing schools of Buddhism can tell me precisely what is right.

You can be whatever you want, as long as you are right with yourself and true to yourself. Nobody is going to send you to hell or anything, although some of the people here might try to push you there
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Old 08-07-2008, 02:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janetvj View Post
I practice Nichiren Buddhism which appears to be quite different from other forms. We are not taught to rid our lives of desire, but instead believe that whatever we desire we can make happen. To have desires is to be human - attaining enlightenment is, after all, a desire in and of itself.
I agree that an activist approach is a fine idea, as one will not make the world more compassionate, etc, if one goes and meditates in a Buddhist monastery. I do think, though, that Buddhists of other persuasions teach that you can also be a bona fide Buddhist and be a "householder".

I wonder about the statement "...believe that whatever we desire we can make happen". This sounds suspiciously like those "You Can Do Anything In The World You Want, If You Want To Badly Enough" books. I would think a Buddhist would "want everything she has" rather than "have everything she wants," so to speak. Actively doing things to help others be happier would be Buddhist "activism".

Attaining enlightenment is indeed a desire, and I think even the most dedicated Buddhist wouldn't beat himself up for having desires, but would endeavor to rise above them (and indeed even the Dalai Lama has said he has a bit of a weakness for nice watches!).

I don't think the Zen Buddhists would go after enlightenment by "desiring" it. Only by letting go of all desire (for yourself, not for your fellow beings' happiness) can enlightenment be attained.

In Hagan's "Buddhism Plain and Simple" he simply states that anyone can be enlightened by being "awake"--i.e., continuous mindfulness of what is going on, and staying in this moment.
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Old 08-07-2008, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Baltimore
1,802 posts, read 8,161,825 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mozart271 View Post
I agree that an activist approach is a fine idea, as one will not make the world more compassionate, etc, if one goes and meditates in a Buddhist monastery. I do think, though, that Buddhists of other persuasions teach that you can also be a bona fide Buddhist and be a "householder".

I wonder about the statement "...believe that whatever we desire we can make happen". This sounds suspiciously like those "You Can Do Anything In The World You Want, If You Want To Badly Enough" books. I would think a Buddhist would "want everything she has" rather than "have everything she wants," so to speak. Actively doing things to help others be happier would be Buddhist "activism".

Attaining enlightenment is indeed a desire, and I think even the most dedicated Buddhist wouldn't beat himself up for having desires, but would endeavor to rise above them (and indeed even the Dalai Lama has said he has a bit of a weakness for nice watches!).

I don't think the Zen Buddhists would go after enlightenment by "desiring" it. Only by letting go of all desire (for yourself, not for your fellow beings' happiness) can enlightenment be attained.

In Hagan's "Buddhism Plain and Simple" he simply states that anyone can be enlightened by being "awake"--i.e., continuous mindfulness of what is going on, and staying in this moment.
As I said - it's a different perspective. It's human to have desires, and trying to repress them isn't going to work for most people. So there isn't any need to rise above them.

Quoted from the SGI web-site:

"Even the most mundane, deluded impulse can be transformed into something broader and more noble, and our desires quite naturally develop from self-focused ones to broader ones concerning our families, friends, communities and, ultimately, the whole world.

In this way, the nature of desire is steadily transformed--from material and physical desires to the more spiritually oriented desire to live the most fulfilling kind of life."

In other words, if one through their buddhist practice is able to attain the desire for a good job, for example, and a nice car, and a loving spouse, he or she will recognize the power of their practice and then will turn their energies toward more worldly goals and helping society as a whole.

Anyway, the theory is certainly more palatable than the traditional buddhist philosophy of repressing desire.
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