Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
ill agre that it was deffinatly dissruptive. but ive searched the article from multiple view points so i may be a little biased in this situation.
in the other view points i found that it really makes it sound as if the student was under going mental evaluation because he was speaking out against a cause that the majority of the population agrees with
i really feel that regardless of ones view point of a particular subject that they need not be "evaluated" just because its outside of the norm.
And it seems to me that from th other articles ive read that this i exactly the reason why he wa being disiplined.
again ive read multiple articles concerning incident
and i guess that my main point with this thread
that just because one's views are against the norm, does that mean that they are mentaly unstable?
In my school days they would have you bent over grabbing your ankles while a good size piece of wood smacked you on your backside for that kind of behavior with no questions asked.
If I go just by the facts of the article alone, I say the school calls in the parents for a sit down. Unless there is anything more in this kid's school records, (fights, bullying, stealing, lying, truency, carrying a concealed weapon, acting in a sexualized/provocative manner, over turning desks, chairs, or otherwise engaging in aggressive/violent actions, etc.) I wouldn't be doing a psych eval for a torn Bible. Disrespectful, yes. Pathological, no.
I especially wouldn't be having the kid evaluated if he tore the Bible for "shock value," (which was my first reaction to the article.) What better way of reinforcing his desire for "shock value" behavior than to make a major production of his acting out? (Wouldn't the tearing of the Bible have therefore served its purpose?) If and only if he's got a fairly serious history would I be inclined to do much beyond:
Discipline the kid.
--And instilling some respect and common decency in him wouldn't help either.
That, and apologize to his class. Make that the next speech he has to get up to do.
Ok, I see what you're saying but I think that the article mentioned that he did have other incidences (of which they didn't divulge any details) and so it does make me wonder about discipline problems.
My main point is that the Bible was abstract from what his school project was which raises the question - Why ANOTHER book? He could have just as easily ripped up a copy of Emerson's poetry as that was what his report was on. But he didn't. He specifically went out of his way and tore up a specific book when he had an audience. Now, I don't really care if it was the Bible or if it was a Dr. Seuss book as they both mean about the same to me but it makes me wonder what the underlying reason was. Why pick a Bible? And so it seems to me that he was trying to make a specific point by ripping up that specific book. Maybe his parents are ultra-religious, maybe kids picking on him at school are ultra-religious, maybe he's just an angry young individual who hates everything about Christianity for no specific reason or perhaps for a variety of different reasons. Nevertheless, if ripping up a book were strictly for "shock value" and perhaps even a laugh or an ill-mannered prank I think the purpose would have been better served by ripping up his assigned reading material.
Think about it. What better way to "shock" the entire class over a homework assignment than ripping up the very thing you're assigned to read? It makes inherently much more sense to rip up a copy of Emerson's poetry if you're doing it strictly for shock value - in my opinion. It's definitely funnier because it has a correlation to the assignment and it shows how you truly feel about the homework assignment and if I think back to my high school days; someone who tore up their assigned paper in front of the class would have gotten the "popularity award" just for the sheer guts it took to do such a thing. But, to me, there's a specific message being brought across by ripping up a DIFFERENT book than what he is assigned. If he stood at the front of the class and ripped up a copy of The Communist Manifesto the point might be taken that he is not a fan of Communists and there may be a reason why.
I guess what I'm getting at is that it's the fact that it's so different than what he was expected to report on. If it was a report on the Bible and he ripped it up - that's a little different. But it wasn't. It was a report on Ralph Waldo Emerson and the kid goes around ripping up a Bible? No... I'm sorry... Something is wrong there.
P.S. - Just because the news article says he is undergoing a "psychological evaluation" does not, in my mind, imply that they are suggesting that the kid be put in a straight jacket and sent to "Camp Looney." I think that what is probably happening is that he is probably seeing a counselor of some sort (possibly a psychologist) who is going to evaluate the root cause for why he did what he did. Was it pathological in the sense of wearing your victim's flesh? Absolutely not! Pathological? More than likely not. Does he need some help with some areas of his life that may have brought these actions on? Maybe he needs to learn to cope with being different, maybe he needs to learn to handle things differently, I don't think those reasons are "pathological" but they can sure be a reason to undergo a "psychological evaluation" as the news so eloquently puts it.
Location: In the North Idaho woods, still surrounded by terriers
2,179 posts, read 7,018,183 times
Reputation: 1014
Quote:
Originally Posted by forkpower
This happend a while ago, but i still think it coul prevoke some interesting conversation.
Bible Ripped in School (http://www.nbc15.com/janesville/headlines/12751397.html - broken link)
A few questions to get started:
1) Why do you think the student was diciplined?
2) Were his actions "violent"?
3) Did the student violate anyone's rights, or were his rights violated?
Have at it
The student was disciplined because he created an atmosphere of fear. This has nothing to do with "rights", per se, it is about an extremely angry teenager who, for whatever reasons, has a hatred for what he deems to be god and Christianity. He definitely needs counseling, but the Bible and his anti-religious rantings are more of a symptom of his illness than anything else. He could have picked up a book about Tom Sawyer and done the same thing, screaming about the nonsense of kids who run barefoot and live in the country and he would still have been disciplined. That kind of outbreak in a school room not only disrupts, it terrifies.
And yes, his actions were violent...more emotionally than physically. He wanted to intimidate and frighten in order to make his point. Makes me wonder what his homelife is like.
There's one thing that really sucks about this whole episode and that is the fact that this kid obviously wanted attention and to do something shocking and he's acheived his goal. Not only did he shock his classmates, he managed to attain a certain notoriety by making the news and get people like ourselves on the internet to talk about him. He's probably thrilled with the outcome.
There two issues here.
1- If the minor age student had other problems than it should not have been in the paper, but rather in the councilors and doctors office.
2- If this was a public school than the Bible should not be in the class room to preach or tear up to start with.
I hate to add more work on a teacher, but in this case a lot of problems could have been solved if they had checked what was being covered in advance.
There two issues here.
1- If the minor age student had other problems than it should not have been in the paper, but rather in the councilors and doctors office.
2- If this was a public school than the Bible should not be in the class room to preach or tear up to start with.
I hate to add more work on a teacher, but in this case a lot of problems could have been solved if they had checked what was being covered in advance.
It is a violation of a person's constitutional rights to prohibit them from or require them to have a religious book in a public school.
Your comment number #2 is more proof that the American public needs more education on our constitutional rights.
If it were my kid, I would bust his butt and ground him for awhile..For being disrespectful of others..He wanted attention, he got it..Now he would get mine.. No analyzing, no meetings with the school counselors, no months and months of group therapy..My therapy should be suffecient
It is a violation of a person's constitutional rights to prohibit them from or require them to have a religious book in a public school.
Your comment number #2 is more proof that the American public needs more education on our constitutional rights.
Alpha, there is a place in schools for religious books and it is not the class room. The library where a person checks out the book on a personal level is acceptable in the view of the Law, The use of any religious documents in the class room is a violation of the First Amendment and thus should not be allowed as a teaching aid for or against any religious view. The Supreme Court has agreed with this view for over 200 years, and case after case has reinforced true religious freedom VS the narrow view of zealots pushing their faith on young minds in order to brainwash and enslave them to a religious prison.
This issue has been coved in hundreds of cases in the Supreme Court and all return back to the First Amendment statement on freedom of religion. You seem to think that allows freedom to take religion into public (Tax Paid) institutions, but of the hundreds of cases before the Court it has been made clear that such actions violate others rights.
Cases on giving our bibles in schools, reading parts of the bible in schools, using religious material as teaching aids, and the list continues to fill books restate this basic right of all citizens to education free of any religious views . The Court makes it clear that all are violations of the freedoms and right granted us by the Constitution.
The first words of the First Amendment to the United State Constitution set forth the guarantee of religious liberty known as the Establishment Clause. It might do you some good to go back and read it with out the blinders of religion on so in the future you might be able to recognize when others religious freedoms are being stepped on.
I stand by my statement. A bible in the class room as a teaching aid weather for or against a religious view is unacceptable and should have been stopped prior to the speech.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
