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I think you are only focusing souly on the bad examples...
I'm not sure that there are many good examples of christerism, under the banner of saving others' souls, untold numbers of people have been slaughtered in the priests bloodlust, the history of the christian church is not known for its' kindness to others, particularly those who do not believe. Hell, even those who do believe, but don't believe in the correct form have been put to death. Christerism is an equal opportunity nightmare, has been for centuries, and if modern law, at least in these parts, is probably the only deterrent for them to lynch, burn, crucify, draw and quarter, feed available beasts, stone, beat, brand and disfigure all who do not think as do they. Christerism has proven itself to be quite adept at disposing of other human beings. Dissenters are not welcomed with open arms. Modern times being the exception to the rule, I doubt it is their "good will toward men" that keep them from acting as they have throughout history.
I'm not sure that there are many good examples of christerism, under the banner of saving others' souls, untold numbers of people have been slaughtered in the priests bloodlust, the history of the christian church is not known for its' kindness to others, particularly those who do not believe. Hell, even those who do believe, but don't believe in the correct form have been put to death. Christerism is an equal opportunity nightmare, has been for centuries, and if modern law, at least in these parts, is probably the only deterrent for them to lynch, burn, crucify, draw and quarter, feed available beasts, stone, beat, brand and disfigure all who do not think as do they. Christerism has proven itself to be quite adept at disposing of other human beings. Dissenters are not welcomed with open arms. Modern times being the exception to the rule, I doubt it is their "good will toward men" that keep them from acting as they have throughout history.
Wow, you have a one-sided view on history...Have you watched Braveheart too many times?
How do you account for other religions and non religions being murderous, and conquering, and evil...
You know the history of the world is not all bloodshed... there are times when we pull together. Feed eachother, help eachother, love eachother.
Wow, you have a one-sided view on history...Have you watched Braveheart too many times?
How do you account for other religions and non religions being murderous, and conquering, and evil...
You know the history of the world is not all bloodshed... there are times when we pull together. Feed eachother, help eachother, love eachother.
godspeed to you,
freedom
Yeah, that was about a half a day, back in 1568, the most civility christerism has been able to work up. And.... it is quite possible that both of us have one sided views.
LOL.... i'm not refusing to acknowledge your mis-interpretation of Leonardo Da Vinci...
You are certainly free to your allusion of Leo..
At most Leo was not lock step with the Roman Church...I've yet to see any writings that he is attributed to, that say He did not believe God existed.
On the contrary his history speaks of his devotion to God and his belief.
godspeed,
freedom
Re. Leonardo Da Vinci...
Nice to hear you being complimentary to a gay man for once, freedom, there might be hope for you yet!!
Nice to hear you being complimentary to a gay man for once, freedom, there might be hope for you yet!!
LOL.... you have a single track mind.
Actually no one knows but he spoke of himself as a celibate and found the sexual act to be a distraction and repulsive... he was chaste. His closest friend was a lady named Isabella d'Este of which i assume they were not intimate.. as they most likely would have had offspring in that day and age.
He adopted a child and other than that i'll take your bait and ask what is your proof of such a claim... other than a Freudian dillusion with no proof.
Actually no one knows but he spoke of himself as a celibate and found the sexual act to be a distraction and repulsive... he was chaste. His closest friend was a lady named Isabella d'Este of which i assume they were not intimate.. as they most likely would have had offspring in that day and age.
He adopted a child and other than that i'll take your bait and ask what is your proof of such a claim... other than a Freudian dillusion with no proof.
godspeed,
freedom
Freedom - as any reliable art historian would tell you, Michaelangelo's true sexuality was never in doubt. The following is the shortest summation I could find, but believe me, there are plenty more if you are still in doubt.
Keep up the good work - you may succeed in your ambition to re-criminalise homosexuality yet, but I don't think you are helping your cause by keep getting the facts wrong... Read and digest:
"Society may countenance homosexuals, but it seems as zealous as ever not to let our heroes or heroines fall, by revealing them as gay men or lesbians.
While visiting Rome I heard a tour guide tell his group that Michelangelo had a love affair with a woman, one which he never had—or perhaps even dreamt of having. In the only two biographies of Michelangelo written during his time, one by Vasari in Lives of the Painters and the other, more authoritative, by Condivi, it is clear that Michelangelo was not a lover of women. His beloved younger male friend, the handsome Tomasso Di Cavalieri, was always invited with him to peoples' homes. To Tomasso went Michelangelo's love and responsibility for his work at the end."
Correction.
ps. OK, I slipped up here because I'm very tired, but the principle is the same. I'll post you the relevant info on Leonardo in the morning, and you'll find that he, too wasn't too fond of the ladies. - Brian.
Last edited by brianrees; 11-01-2008 at 09:06 PM..
Actually no one knows but he spoke of himself as a celibate and found the sexual act to be a distraction and repulsive... he was chaste.
He adopted a child and other than that i'll take your bait and ask what is your proof of such a claim... other than a Freudian dillusion with no proof.
As promised freedom, some facts re LEONARDO DA VINCI.
As you will be fully aware if you have googled 'Leonardo gay' - the many resulting sites leave no doubt about Leonardo's arrest and two month imprisonment in 1476 on the charge of sodomy with his pretty young male model and known prostitute, Jacobo Salltarelli. Leonardo was 24 at the time, and being fortunate in his connections, was subsequently acquitted of the charge.
However, as you can also read, Leonardo is thought by historians that include the great Sir Kenneth Clark, to have had, at least, stronger gay tendencies that otherwise, especially as his lack of attraction to women was well-documented. Even if he did choose celibacy, he was clearly a gay celibate. (a bit like me, these days, for lack of opportunity!)...
I will send you a long file of various scholarly opinion if you wish it, so please try not to deny the known facts.
Quote:
It is interesting to note that Leonardo had several "close male companions" but never was linked to or married a woman. Leonardo was a great believer in Humanism - that human beings could choose for themselves what was good or bad and did not need to follow strict teachings of the church to find their path in life.
-- A typical quote, but it is particularly relevant here because it clearly shows Leonardo's attitude to the church, too, and his leaning towards 'humanism', as one would expect of one who was not only super-intelligent, but who has often been recognised as the world's greatest GENIUS of all time!
I daresay you would have been happy to see such a man brought low in accordance with your strange beliefs, but I suspect that you would be 'laughed out of court' for your preposterousness... The whole world is in Leonardo's debt, and who he may or may not have slept with is not really an issue - but as he was gay, let's not twist the historical evidence to suit your own prejudices.
As promised freedom, some facts re LEONARDO DA VINCI.
As you will be fully aware if you have googled 'Leonardo gay' - the many resulting sites leave no doubt about Leonardo's arrest and two month imprisonment in 1476 on the charge of sodomy with his pretty young male model and known prostitute, Jacobo Salltarelli. Leonardo was 24 at the time, and being fortunate in his connections, was subsequently acquitted of the charge.
However, as you can also read, Leonardo is thought by historians that include the great Sir Kenneth Clark, to have had, at least, stronger gay tendencies that otherwise, especially as his lack of attraction to women was well-documented. Even if he did choose celibacy, he was clearly a gay celibate. (a bit like me, these days, for lack of opportunity!)...
I will send you a long file of various scholarly opinion if you wish it, so please try not to deny the known facts.
-- A typical quote, but it is particularly relevant here because it clearly shows Leonardo's attitude to the church, too, and his leaning towards 'humanism', as one would expect of one who was not only super-intelligent, but who has often been recognised as the world's greatest GENIUS of all time!
I daresay you would have been happy to see such a man brought low in accordance with your strange beliefs, but I suspect that you would be 'laughed out of court' for your preposterousness... The whole world is in Leonardo's debt, and who he may or may not have slept with is not really an issue - but as he was gay, let's not twist the historical evidence to suit your own prejudices.
You still have given no proof...
It's not a prejudice to know gay sex is a sin, its moral wisdom.
godspeed,
freedom
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