Jesus Christ as a Myth (meaning, rejecting, afterlife, scrutiny)

[rayneinspain]

Originally Posted by Natthebattherat

The average athiest is just a christian person who was taught by a christian heretic.

Nope.

Originally Posted by Natthebattherat

That is they were born of christian parents who said believe in gd or I will belt you, or they met some priest who gambled and drove ferraris on weekdays.

Still NO.

Originally Posted by Natthebattherat

The average athiest was presented with a corrupted view of christianity so they rejected it,

How would you know?

Originally Posted by Natthebattherat

I have not met an athiest who even knows how to read scripture.

Ohhh...so you're saying that only special people are worthy of understanding the BASIC TEXT OF CHRISTIANITY? My, aren't we a little presumptuous...

Originally Posted by Natthebattherat

In fact most christians can't read scripture and don't really understand it, including 70-80% of priest. You actually have to have years of training to be able to read scripture in a seminary as it is impossible to be able to interpret a bible by yourself.

IMO, if it is so convoluted as to require a flipping PhD in Theology, then what, precisely, is the point of the text?

Originally Posted by Natthebattherat

....., I know tha most athiest have 0 knowledge of christianity and have no idea how little they know about the religion. I have been lucky enough to find someone who does understand it and can interpret it. When I never understood it, I left the religion because it made no sense at that time.

So glad you're here to interpret and speak for all atheists (and agnostics). This agnostic made up her mind initially at age 7 or 8 that it was nonsensical, went through apparently 'heretical' bible study for several years , and officially and permanently made up my mind at age 16.

Some of us do not require an interpreter to know if a religion or an idea like Jesus doesn't ring true for us.

[catman]

The design of the poll leaves a lot to be desired. I happen to think both of the choices could be true. It could be that he never existed, but it could also be that he was a mortal man. I think he may well have been a synthesis of more than one mortal man, with a lot of pixie dust thrown in by the various conferences, etc who shaped the character portrayed in the Bible. And there are people who believe that Jesus was/is supernatural, so they should be accomodated with an option.

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by rayneinspain

IMO, if it is so convoluted as to require a flipping PhD in Theology, then what, precisely, is the point of the text?

Precisely! Natthebattherat appears to be saying that this 'Word of God', given to us by an omnimax deity, that we must use as a basis of or lives in order that we may avoid an eternity in everlasting torture is so complicated that 99% are not going to be able to understand it unless we have a PhD in theology or are experts in the ancient Greek and Hebrew languages.

As you say, if that is true, what the hell is the point of it. One would imagine that an omnimax deity that allegedly has our interests in mind and doesn't want to see us damned, would be able to get his rules out in a manner that everyone, regardless of educational levels, would be able to understand.

Just absurd!!

[Ceist]

Originally Posted by Miss Crabcakes

I was just curious how many other non-believers here believe, as I do, that Jesus Christ may be just a myth.

There are loads of links backing up these claims, as well as books and arguements such as this one but I know that many atheists do believe he was real, just not the "son of god" who performed miracles and all but a normal, mortal man.

After doing lots of reading when I first discovered agnoticism years back, I began to think that it is a good chance that Jesus and his story is a complete fabrication; a myth, like many.

How many others feel this way?

That's an excellent link! Thank you.
For those who missed it:
Jesus Myth - The Case Against Historical Christ

[fishbrains]

Originally Posted by rifleman

As with much in the bible, apparently there's precious little actual and traceable documentation or good evidence FOR Jesus as a Son of God character. no tax documents, no property ownership, no record of birth. Those who have done the scholarly stuff tell us there's little documentation even though there is such traceable lineage for others of the same era. Also, there's that missing what is it? 25 or so years?

It seems to me likely or at least possible that he was simply a creative construct of nece

The problem with this is that for MOST people of that era, we have no records. Even many of the senior Roman politicians are only known by a small handful of references. Tax documents and such are spotty at best. It really is not surprising that there is no secular documentation of Jesus' life.

The lack of documentation, in and of itself, is not really a proof of the non-existence of Jesus.

Not that the Bible is any proof that he did exist of course.

Bottom line, if Jesus existed, it was as a pale shadow of the character presented in the Bible. Certainly not god on earth.

[tilli]

I have no idea if he really existed or if he is pure myth, but before I started reading at this particular forum I had never even heard an argument advanced that he did not truly exist. Obviously I do not believe he was divine, but I also doubt that he was pure fiction.

My personal instinct is that he did exist and was a good man who cared about others and tried to inspire compassion in those he met, and that this message was subsequently twisted by power-hungry churchies. If so, I think he'd be appalled by most of the people today who smugly self-identify as "saved" Christians whilst indulging in self-righteous, judgmental behavior and choosing to decry only those "sins" that they don't personally partake of. If only all Christians truly strove to be Christ-like I'd have so much more respect for them.

Unfortunately I can honestly say that I have met exactly ONE Christian who really does try to treat everyone with love and compassion and leaves the judgement to her God.

[KCfromNC]

Originally Posted by Natthebattherat

If Jesus is a myth in terms of actually existing, he is the most well documented myth who has more people who claimed to have seen him than any other myth.

Yes, so well documented that he has two separate contradictory genealogies! Most people from history only have one, but Jesus is so real that he has two totally different sets of ancestors. That must mean he's twice as real as other historical figures.

[Miss Crabcakes]

Thanks everyone for your responses. It's been great reading!

I personally began to think that Jesus never existed because I feel like if he was the "son of god" and ultimate gift from him, it would not be something that comes with so much speculation, heresay and narrow-text. I'd think if I were a god and a sent my only begotten son down to earth to help the people I created, this would be such a momentus event that everyone in the world would be aware of it. It would be the kind of concrete, irrefutable thing, like the air we breath, the gravity that holds the earth's matter together and the sun rising and setting everyday that one couldn't really even argue it.

The fact that the texts were originally written on one language, translated several times and written so far after the fact tells me that this is merely the work of man, flawed, inconsistent and inaccurate. If the gospels were truly the words of god, it would be so precise and on point really no one could really argue with it. It would be a perfect science to me.

I mean we are talking about the son of god, right?

[Rafius]

Originally Posted by fishbrains

The problem with this is that for MOST people of that era, we have no records. Even many of the senior Roman politicians are only known by a small handful of references.

But would that be the case for someone that really did raise people from the dead, walk on water, cure the sick and blind and feed thousands with little food? Personally, I find it inconceivable that, if this Jesus character really did do the things attributed to him, there was no-one who bothered to record it outside of Bible sources.

It really is not surprising that there is no secular documentation of Jesus' life.

I find it astonishing that there are none. If he was, as I suspect, (assuming he did exist) some itinerant wandering Rabbi with a few good ideas then yes, I would agree that there probably wouldn't be much to note about him.

The lack of documentation, in and of itself, is not really a proof of the non-existence of Jesus.

It would depend what Jesus was. Lack of documentation for a Roman soldier in some Palestinian backwater town would not be unusual but lack of documentation for a Roman soldier that carried out great feats of bravery in battle WOULD be unusual. For someone to have performed 'miracle' the like of which the world had not seen before or since would undoubtedly had people running from everywhere to see him...there would have been documentation of the man by the cart load.

Bottom line, if Jesus existed, it was as a pale shadow of the character presented in the Bible. Certainly not god on earth.

That about does it for me.

[xube]

In the words of my great grandmother....the world is full of fools who follow other fools to their death...and then they find the truth....only the wise follow their own soul and that of no other....aho