Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I know this will make me sound like an old fogey and that's probably the case.
Nonetheless, I don’t believe it’s the responsibility of the city’s taxpayers to keep young people occupied. Nor do I believe that the failure to meet this alleged obligation somehow authorizes young people to come to Midtown and start shooting guns, or to rampage through an event like SOTG as they did last year.
When I was one of “these kids” – and from the news I’m assuming we’re talking about people in their late teens – we assumed it was up to us to keep ourselves occupied. You got a job babysitting, mowing lawns, bagging groceries, flipping burgers, etc., to put a few coins in your pocket. In the summertime, when school was out, you might hook on with a construction company or something more steady. A lot of people played sports or engaged in hobbies or the arts. Folks in my hood lived modestly but there were always household chores – cleaning up, running errands, taking care of little ones, helping the older folks down the street, fixing something that was broken. Some of us were raising families of our own at that age.
And, heaven forbid, there was always the option of simply reading and learning. Or hanging out and talking with your friends. I’m not pretending for a second that my generation was in any way morally superior, but it simply never entered our minds to get a gang up and go terrorize an event like SOTG. We would never have said, “Let’s get some guns and go to town and shoot people.”
This was despite the fact that the city provided ZERO activities to keep us occupied. That was our job. And even if we got bored, we didn’t view violence and disruption as our alternative right.
"
Nonetheless, I don’t believe it’s the responsibility of the city’s taxpayers to keep young people occupied. Nor do I believe that the failure to meet this alleged obligation somehow authorizes young people to come to Midtown and start shooting guns, or to rampage through an event like SOTG as they did last year."
Who says that the kids who are out there don't have parents who are Fulton County residents who pay taxes? Plus economically it does make sense if you're able to 1. Have folks feel comfortable being in Atlanta by having these kids off engaging in some other activity 2. Probably reduce crime and keep kids on the right track by keeping them occupied. Hell, the more social type events for folks (which there should also be events geared towards teens also) the better I say.
"When I was one of “these kids” – and from the news I’m assuming we’re talking about people in their late teens – we assumed it was up to us to keep ourselves occupied. You got a job babysitting, mowing lawns, bagging groceries, flipping burgers, etc., to put a few coins in your pocket. In the summertime, when school was out, you might hook on with a construction company or something more steady. A lot of people played sports or engaged in hobbies or the arts. Folks in my hood lived modestly but there were always household chores – cleaning up, running errands, taking care of little ones, helping the older folks down the street, fixing something that was broken. Some of us were raising families of our own at that age."
I hate to sound like a young fogey (sorry I had to) but times have sort of changed. Today its nearly impossible for kids to gain some kind of meaningful employment to keep them occupied. Hell, even back when I was around the age of a lot of these kids in the early-mid 2000's, it was still hard to find a job. Not to mention that a lot of folks around a lot of the areas these kids come from lived on a fix income, and probably cant afford to consistly hire kids to work. And even when these kids are off working their side jobs, they gotta spend their time/money somewhere. I remember back in the day me and my friends use to wander around downtown/Atlanta the same way these kids do, only difference is we weren't boneheaded/messed up enough to go around attacking people, we just wanted to catch some music at a club for the most part. But the thing is kids usually have a lot of pent up energy, and if they aren't given an outlet for that energy then you get stuff like property damage, and even shootings when kids come from messed up circumsances.
"And, heaven forbid, there was always the option of simply reading and learning. Or hanging out and talking with your friends. I’m not pretending for a second that my generation was in any way morally superior, but it simply never entered our minds to get a gang up and go terrorize an event like SOTG. We would never have said, “Let’s get some guns and go to town and shoot people.”
I doubt that there was any generation where large pockets of kids read for fun. But the only difference imo between this generation, and folks back in the 70's/60's is the proliferation of guns, and prevalance in which kids are now engaging in the underground market (mostly fueled by the drug trade) due to the loss in the number of working class jobs. When you take one factor (guns) or the other (kids running around wanting to be the next scarface because thats the only future that they think they have) then you get that energy that should be spent playing football, basketball, baseball, etc turns harmful towards property and people. Maybe i feel like I can understand these kids to an extent since I'm a bit closer to their age than most posters here, and I have family members who have gone through the same thing in their younger years, but its a matter of giving these kids direction. Also, I'm not even putting the responsibility of raising kids on the government, BUT the government does have an interest in ensuring that things like the attacks that are occuring around midtown get addressed. Hell, the problem should have been addressed YEARS ago before Atlanta began to gentrify.
No doubt there are zillions of young people in that situation all over metro Atlanta. Back in the late 60s and early 1970s bands like the Allman Brothers would do free shows at Piedmont Park and lots of young folks would come down for the show. I don't believe there were any incidents of widespread violence or any shootings, however.
well im an 80s kid & i am sure my generation was not as well behaved as yours, but we didnt terrorize people like the youth of today. Its weird to think a male 10 or 15 years younger than me could cause so much trouble....I wonder how these kids will feel when they hit 30s and the next gen is coming up.
well im an 80s kid & i am sure my generation was not as well behaved as yours, but we didnt terrorize people like the youth of today. Its weird to think a male 10 or 15 years younger than me could cause so much trouble....I wonder how these kids will feel when they hit 30s and the next gen is coming up.
IMO it's all tied to economics. If you can't afford to get your kids into productive activities, or if the area where you live doesn't have that many productive activities for kids, then you get stuff like this happening. :-/
10th and P'tree is nowhere near Piedmont Park. Hmm, that's what, 3 blocks?
That sounds like Midtown Station area which is not far at all. Look I totally understand chasing chicks...but wit SOTG, people are in chill picnic mode. All the blankets are set up, everyone is laid out chillaxing. So when 10 to 13 Young guns (no chicks in their party) start walking through the people who are SITTING DOWN....its a little distracting then you got another 23 boys up the hill and they mean mugging the group of 33 boys hanging out at the porta potties, who in turning are mean mugging the 6 dudes who just walked by with the Trap Goon Cliq t shirts on.....why are these people at peidmont? They not watching 16 Candles. they just loitering. When it gets dark an everyone is heading back to Midtown or Arts Center is when the craziness starts. Last year they were fighting in the park while the movie was playing! which eventually spilled over to the innocent folks on 10th street, which continued on the train platform. I was there, I saw it live & could only shake my head. APD was present during the 2nd week, people got shot the 3rd week.....what will happen this time?
When I was one of “these kids” – and from the news I’m assuming we’re talking about people in their late teens – we assumed it was up to us to keep ourselves occupied. You got a job babysitting, mowing lawns, bagging groceries, flipping burgers, etc., to put a few coins in your pocket. In the summertime, when school was out, you might hook on with a construction company or something more steady. A lot of people played sports or engaged in hobbies or the arts. Folks in my hood lived modestly but there were always household chores – cleaning up, running errands, taking care of little ones, helping the older folks down the street, fixing something that was broken. Some of us were raising families of our own at that age.
Wow, how old are you?
When I was one of "these kids," I was dragging Main Street, getting drunk, trying to pick up girls, and occasionally picking fights. Yes, I was a redneck.
The big difference is that we were all the right color. We were just kids out "raising hell" and were mostly tolerated by the citizenry. If we'd been of a darker hue, I'm sure the town would have called in the National Guard. The other big difference is that we didn't shoot people -- even each other. Kids out raising hell with guns is a problem. Someone should do something about that.
I hate to sound like a young fogey (sorry I had to) but times have sort of changed. Today its nearly impossible for kids to gain some kind of meaningful employment to keep them occupied. Hell, even back when I was around the age of a lot of these kids in the early-mid 2000's, it was still hard to find a job. Not to mention that a lot of folks around a lot of the areas these kids come from lived on a fix income, and probably cant afford to consistly hire kids to work. And even when these kids are off working their side jobs, they gotta spend their time/money somewhere. I remember back in the day me and my friends use to wander around downtown/Atlanta the same way these kids do, only difference is we weren't boneheaded/messed up enough to go around attacking people, we just wanted to catch some music at a club for the most part. But the thing is kids usually have a lot of pent up energy, and if they aren't given an outlet for that energy then you get stuff like property damage, and even shootings when kids come from messed up circumsances.
Box, I appreciate what you're saying and I'm not so old that I can't remember what it was like to be bored on Saturday night. You check in with your buddies, and it turns out that between the three of you about $14.97 is all you can raise. Not enough to go to the movie, not enough for a pizza, and maybe enough gas to drive in your old jalopy for a few hours if you can get the damn thing running.
But, hey, that's the way the cookie crumbles. We couldn't get big jobs 50 years ago either. If you were lucky and persistent you might hook on some place bagging groceries or sweeping up or mowing a lawn, but that was about it. And while my folks weren't on a fixed income, they sure didn't have any money to spare. It would not have been on the radar screen to hit them up for running money anyway.
So we just figured out things to do, most of which were extremely dull. Like sitting around talking or maybe finding some girls who would sit around and talk with us, too. Maybe we'd go to the high school dance. We actually had a crude form of television in those days so sometimes we watched that. I was lucky because I liked music and we had a little group that would get together and jam.
But one thing we did not do is descend en masse on a public gathering like SOTG. And we certainly didn't get guns and go to Midtown and start shooting. The decision not to do those things is personal choice. Even if someone suggests it, you can either go along, or you can say, "I'm not up for that, man."
I understand what you say about not believing you have much of a future ahead of you. At the same time, that's a little perplexing in a city that's widely regarded as America's black mecca. Here the sky is the limit. There are so many, many fantastic role models. They've been around for several generations now. Politicians, newscasters, doctors, musicians, policemen, businessmen, athletes, lawyers, designers, you name it. We've got an education system that is ultra deluxe. We've got strong support from the community, including both the public and private sectors.
I'm with you on the problems young people face and I know it's easy to go down the wrong road. But let's hope success and opportunity make good things happen. If there's any place where the circumstances are right, Atlanta is it.
Today its nearly impossible for kids to gain some kind of meaningful employment to keep them occupied. .
Disagree. Most kids in my neighborhood who want one, have one or more than one summer job. All different types and hours, but they have jobs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Box
Not to mention that a lot of folks around a lot of the areas these kids come from lived on a fix income, and probably cant afford to consistly hire kids to work. .
They are? What area are we talking about? And by most you mean more than 50%?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Box
I remember back in the day me and my friends use to wander around downtown/Atlanta the same way these kids do, only difference is we weren't boneheaded/messed up enough to go around attacking people, we just wanted to catch some music at a club for the most part. .
That's a major defference. IF that was the way THEY behaved we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Box
But the thing is kids usually have a lot of pent up energy, and if they aren't given an outlet for that energy then you get stuff like property damage, and even shootings when kids come from messed up circumsances..
So, whose responsibility is it to come up with things to keep the terrorists busy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Box
But the only difference imo between this generation, and folks back in the 70's/60's is the proliferation of guns, and prevalance in which kids are now engaging in the underground market (mostly fueled by the drug trade) due to the loss in the number of working class jobs..
So, working class jobs would keep thugs from selling drugs and running around with guns?
Do you really think that is why these kids aren't working at Publix and becoming a tellers at banks? Laughable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Box
its a matter of giving these kids direction..
I agree with you here. And it's the family's and community's responsibility to do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Box
Also, I'm not even putting the responsibility of raising kids on the government, BUT the government does have an interest in ensuring that things like the attacks that are occuring around midtown get addressed. Hell, the problem should have been addressed YEARS ago before Atlanta began to gentrify.
When I was one of "these kids," I was dragging Main Street, getting drunk, trying to pick up girls, and occasionally picking fights. Yes, I was a redneck.
The big difference is that we were all the right color. We were just kids out "raising hell" and were mostly tolerated by the citizenry. If we'd been of a darker hue, I'm sure the town would have called in the National Guard. The other big difference is that we didn't shoot people -- even each other. Kids out raising hell with guns is a problem. Someone should do something about that.
Oh, I didn't pick any fights, but I got in a couple. And yeah, we got ripped on occasion. However, we didn't do stuff like that at places like SOTG. And yep, we raced cars, but not on Main Street.
You're right about color making a difference, too.
I don't expect young people to be all nicey-nice all the time. But I do expect them not to screw up things like SOTG or to start shooting people. There's a diff.
"Disagree. Most kids in my neighborhood who want one, have a sumer job. All different types and hours, but they have jobs."
Where do you live? The economics of your neighborhood probably differ from where a lot of these kids stay. Also, considering even people who are educated are being forced to compete with kids working crappy starbucks/mcdonalds jobs, I'm willing to say tis a bit tough to find employment if you're young these days.
"They are? What area are we talking about? And by most you mean more than 50%?"
Majority probably. How many of these kids do you think live in Buckhead, Dunwoody, etc? Not many I'm willing to say. From my experience (not indicative on anything on a wide level mind you, just my personal experience) a lot of the kids come from Atlanta (usually an area like west end) or some of the working class suburbs.
"That's a major defference. IF that was the way THEY behaved we wouldn't be having this discussion right now."
Kids are natually jackasses and will do stupid ****. Kids are gonna naturally want an outlet, especialy in a city like Atlanta. So why not give them a productive outlet?
"So, whose responsibility is it to come up with things to keep the terrorists busy?"
Teenagers aren't terrorists, they're just really dumb.
"So, working class jobs would keep thugs from selling drugs and running around with guns?"
Yup, Bingo. At least jobs that pay a liveable wage.
"Do you really think that is why these kids aren't working at Publix and becoming a tellers at banks? Laughable."
Most of these kids are high schoolers, fresh out of high school, or even some cases dropped out. I doubt they would stand much of a chance getting employed as a bank teller, over your philosophy major who is also gunning for said job. Also, considering the fact that public doesn't pay a liveable wage, and will often time treat their workers like slaves, then its no wonder you dont see kids gunning to work at public. But then again im willing to bet a good many folks do work your wafflehouse, public, etc type jobs and get fed up with it after seeing that they're treated as disposable products. Hell, I can remember going straight from class to work in high school and getting in arguments with my manager because I had to get home to do homework and she would want me to stay til late in the night.
"I agree with you here. And it's the family's and community's responsibility to do that."
This is true also. The responsibility should be more so on non-profits (after family of course), but the government should create an enviroment for those type of nonprofits to be able to get stuff done.
"Not the government's responsibility"
Just because its not the governments responsibility, doesn't mean that its not in its long term interest. It's not the governments responsibility to promote parks, museums, etc but it still does it because of the fact that it has an interest in promoting those kinds of things.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
