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First of all, my opinions have been formed not from media exposure, but from exposure to the "very wealthy" in Atlanta. These opinions are coming from a highly educated, well-traveled individual, and from a person who uses correct grammar and can correctly spell the word "definitely".
That said, it is offensive to me to see anyone so uneducated that they only seek to be around people they PHYSICALLY RESEMBLE. I cannot think of anything more offensive and STUPID, honestly. The idea of being educated and "coming out of the ghetto" or from a depressed, white, blue-collar town - or from a Hispanic SLUM should only partly be based on making a comfortable living, monetarily speaking - at least that's my opinion.
If it "doesn't bother you" - you should open your eyes. And I feel there's no better way to have your eyes pried opened than to spend time with people from all walks of life.
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I often catch myself spelling definitely 'definately' because it is the way my British friends spell it in our correspondences and in British newspapers and magazines. So apparently I don't limit myself to only being around people like my own. However, I don't see anything wrong with wanting to live with people like yourself. In New York Italians live amongst each other in Bensonhurst, Howard Beach, little Italy. Chinese in Chinatown, Russians in little Odessa, Greeks in Astoria, Jews in Crown Heights, etc. etc.. Does this make New York racist? If so then Chicago, Boston, LA, Miami and most really large cities in America are racist also.
This type of forming of ethnic communities has always been a way for immigrants (especially minorities) to adjust to and advance in American society. In these communities the residents can help and support each other in ways that they couldn't otherwise. It is also a very economically practical thing to do. And it allowed them to hold on to some of the important parts of their cultural heritage that help them thrive. But, for some reason when blacks try to do the same thing it's considered some type of reverse prejudice.
I noticed when living 'up north' in cities that had a great white majority. The whites all praised how little racism there was in comparision to the south. Meanwhile, many blacks there lamented how little political say so or cultural and social venues they had. On the Minneapolis site I noticed the whites are so proud of how good race relations are and at the same time blacks and asians are leaving the city in large numbers because they say there is so little for them there.
Cities where whites have very little competition from blacks because of their small percentages often go on about how great race relations are. While in cities where there are large numbers of blacks competing for jobs, land, and political power whites often complain about how awful race relations are and accuse blacks there of being racist or other negative things.
I myself enjoy interacting with and having other races around and would prefer to live in an area about 33% white, 33% black, 33% other. But, I also realize African Americans still have a long long way go to catch up economically with whites. I think in some ways by us sticking together and helping each other we can move ahead and we can't and shouldn't always look to other races for help. If this makes me a racist then I'm sorry.
Don't even worry about how you spelled it! It's a message board, not a thesis!
I think we struck a nerve and that's why she had to come out guns blazing and making personal attacks rather than sticking to the issue.
I think the original point was made though. You're right, most cities are like that. I've never lived up north and hopefulluy never will. It's interesting to hear your take on the segregation there. I just visited the Great Blacks in Wax Museum in Baltimore. It was really interesting, I wish more people would visit places like that. (There was only one white couple there) It might help them understand some of the issues that are still going on. I had to take a break from this board for a few days after so I wouldn't totally go off on some poor soul.
On topic, Debby Dunwoody? Were you joking or is there one out there about them too?
Correct grammar can be used anywhere, not just in theses and dissertations. None of your posts struck a nerve, trust me - the only nerve posts like these could strike is the nerve that causes me to shake my head in disbelief at the level of ridiculousness.
In my posts, I did not mention the living and community situation, so much as the congregating and the social interactions. If you can't see the difference between the 1930s Italians moving near each other because they spoke little-to-no English, and not socially interacting with other people because of their ethnicity or race... well then, there's really nothing anyone can post or write to help that.
I have no issue with sticking together, I've been around enough to understand why people stick together... and trust me, no minority group sticks together more than the Koreans. That's not the issue. It's about being so caught up in a mentality that you refuse to congregate with people outside of what you physically look like. I see that everywhere in Atlanta - work, bars, social societies, and I see it from whites, blacks, Hispanics, etc. The fact that someone said they have "no problem with it" is just perpetuating what I'm saying. This is not some huge revelation either, if you run a search on these forums for the very obvious welcomed and chosen segregation in Atlanta, I'm clearly not the only person who feels this way.
Atlanta may be touted as the "city too busy to hate", and that may be true. I'm sure the number of "hate" crimes in and around the city is less than what has happened in the "old" South. However, if people recognize and welcome segregation and detachment in social settings - just because of a person's skin tone - what does that really say about the city? Not much, in my opinion.
And just because these posts are so absurd, I'll take it up a notch. A quick internet search from both American English and British English/slang dictionaries reveals no found entries for the word "definately". In fact, The Guardian, the Brits beloved news source, cites it as a common mistake to avoid when applying for - you guessed it - an English teacher.
In no way do I consider myself to be racist or prejudiced in any way. I live in Vinings, one of the whitest communities in Metro Atlanta and I get along with all my neighbors. Unless you are a minority, you can not understand where we are coming from in wanting to self segregate.
My kids go to Lovett, a really really white school. They go there because it's one of the best schools in Metro Atlanta. They have white friends but I have also ensured they have many Black friends as well in having them become members of a social organization which keeps Black kids in these parts of town in tune with their Black culture. My wife and I also play a large role in teaching history and culture to our kids. I guess it would be harder for a white person to understand how easily all that can be lost and how tempting it can be for a black teen in areas like this to assimilate fully to "fit in" shedding every vestige of Black culture he/she can. I just want my children to know that they are still Black, no matter how white their surrounding neighborhood is, no matter how many white friends they have, no matter how well they speak, and no matter how many times they spell definitely "correctly".
My wife and I chose to live up here as opposed to a community like Cascade because we wanted our children to go to a Buckhead private school, as these are the best schools in the Metro, and the areas where successful Blacks live as the majority was going to be too far a commute. My oldest daughter is a senior this year at Lovett and she wants to go to Spelman here in Atlanta for school. I am proud of that because even though she grew up in majority white environments her whole life, she still has desire to connect more with her Black heritage and is excited about not being a minority in the classroom for once. Since she also has the integrated side of life to draw experiences from, I think she will be very well rounded in how to get along in both integrated and segregated environments. If she ends up changing her mind and accepting admission to a lily white school, I will still be happy for her, for I know that she wil not come home confused about who she is. My wife and I could only do so much. Having her around other Black kids in that organization who live in Vinings, Sandy Springs, and Buckhead and attend white private shools is priceless because they all grow from eachother's experience.
My wife and I are also members of social clubs and organizations which are exclusively Black. Blacks in Cascade, Sandtown, and Lithonia get to live around middle class and upper class blacks everyday. It's harder up here to draw from eachother's experience becuse of the large white population. So, my wife and I joined these clubs and organizations, which have nationwide chapters, so that we could still have a large majority of Blacks in who we count among our friends because Blacks are who owe are most comfortable around. Not you or anyone else can tell me which group(s) I ought to associate with. That would be different for every person.
Last edited by stvincent; 08-21-2007 at 11:34 AM..
Unless you are a minority, you can not understand where we are coming from in wanting to self segregate.
I guess it would be harder for a white person to understand how easily all that can be lost and how tempting it can be for a black teen in areas like this to assimilate fully to "fit in" shedding every vestige of Black culture he/she can. I just want my children to know that they are still Black, no matter how white their surrounding neighborhood is.
Ok, I understand what you're TRYING to say (I think), but let's look at teens in 2007.
Have you EVER seen a black child try to "act white", or for that matter, "forget they're black"? No... really. If anything we have white kids walking around with neck bling and listening to Rap and Hiphop and the parents are going nuts at the dinner tables around the metro area going, "Hello kid!!! You're WHITE!!!!!" But never have I see a black child start listening to Country Music, buy a Jeep Wrangler, and start watching Design Star on HGTV just because they're exposed to high numbers of white people. Really.
Certainly if Black parents move into a predominately white area they want their kids to have a DIVERSE group of friends. Likewise there are White parents who have have kids who attend predominately Black public schools, who need to make sure those kids have a diverse variety of kids to get to know as well via social groups, etc. But I don't think there's an epidemic of Black children in Atlanta who are forgetting they're black, or trying to act white.
White Betty or Black Betty - they get that way because of a sheltered life around only an elite crowd when growing up. Even so, Betties don't forget who they are - it only influences how they act around their peers. Likewise with kids. They may act a certain way to fit in with whatever crowd they're around at the moment, but, they don't forget who they really are on the inside.
To me colour is only skin deep, soul is the only thing about a person that has depth.
Well said.
Basically, what every race and ethnicity needs to understand is that their's is not the only one in the universe. Yeah, easier said than done. This goes for whites, blacks, Asians, Arabs and everywhere in between. To me, there is nothing more educational than sitting down with someone who IS NOT like you and learning about THEIR ways and customs and beliefs... instead of just spouting out "well there's no way you'll EVER understand me because you don't look like me... physically." In my time here in Atlanta, I've seen and experienced that way too often. I don't care how many years you went to an esteemed private school, or what degree you hold - it is a very uneducated person who would act that way. That frame of mind is only sustaining the ignorance and confusion of people, ALL people.
And just saying this - just having this discussion is putting too much emphasis on race, skin tone, or ethnicity in my opinion. Just because somebody doesn't resemble you does not mean they can never understand you. A person adopted at a young age from an Asian country, or an African country could have WAY more in common (feelings about life, ways of seeing things) with a white adopted child than anyone would or could imagine. And that's just one example.
Nowhere have I said to lose your own ancestry or cultural values or religion. It's those things that make so many places in America, and the world amazing places to visit... but please understand that MANY people see and feel Atlanta's racial and ethnic problems, this is nothing new.
AtlantaGreg - yeah, I forgot this was about Betty's. I wish *I* could be a Betty... I don't really feel like being at work right now... and I feel damn well entitled to an 800k starter-home. Wait, what?
I don't think I ever met a Buckhead Betty but from the discription I can't help but think of the character Susanne Sugarbaker from the old Designing Women show.
Anybody remember that show from the 80's and 90's? It was about these interior decorators that shared a mansion in Atlanta. Susanne was an extremly snobbish, superficial ex beauty queen whose life at one time revolved around competing in different beauty pagents and trying to climb the social ladder.
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