20th annual Trumpet awards Held in Atlanta (White, Martin: rating, best)

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by northwinds

Preach on brotha'.........its a new day and we all need to stop "livin' in the past"..... a past that none of us lived.....its such a crutch for so many....and sad.

Racism whether perpetrated by white, green, yellow, orange or black is wrong. Those who encourage it are wrong. Stop tolerating it America!

[chiatldal]

Originally Posted by northwinds

Because the studios know that lots of folks are not going to want to see a remake of the "Tuskegee Airmen" (not to mention the ad naseum Black history month profiles of this group).....which is a faciful rewrite of historical accuracy......this movie is basically a joke which implies that the "Tuskegee Airmen" turned the tide in WWII....LOL..........they were a social project that escorted a few bomber missions after the war was essentially over. Their claim that they "never lost a bomber" has been refuted and they actually lost 25 bombers as escorts....but somehow never lost a fighter plane/pilot......pathetic numbers when you think about it......

I see it's back to usual, this tell it's something deep that's bugging you.

First off there are things, events and etc, that celebrate different brackground so basically your upset because this mentions black people?

Am I Asian no, do I think this racist NO. I believe racists would try to hijack the term racist and throw it around because they are called racist a lot actually. Just my 2 cent, It's funny how most people of different backgrounds are okay. The only the people who are upset, are ones who can't tolerate diversity, or else there's nothing to be upset about.

Asian American Spirit Award

AAJA : Programs : 2011 AAJA Awards (http://www.aaja.org/programs/awards - broken link)

2010 Asian/Pacific American Awards for Literature | APALA (http://www.apalaweb.org/2011/03/2010-asianpacific-american-awards-for-literature/ - broken link)

Asian American Writers' Workshop

and etc.

Second off whites make up the majority of the US, I mean whites make up overall 70% of the US. How is there going to be a special note of something overall 70% This white something label broadly "white" will come off weird.

Third off because whites make overall 70% of the US again, Whites are often broken down to ethnicity example

The Irish American Arts Awards - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Walks of Life Awards - Irish American Archives Society - IAAS

The Ireland U.S. Council - Promoting Business Connections Between America and Ireland

Italia Unita.org :: Italian-American Achievement Awards

Women to be honored at Italian American awards dinner - Brighton, NY - Brighton-Pittsford Post

and etc, etc, etc I doing to just stop there..

Which bring me back to my above points. There are things, events and etc, that celebrate different backgrounds. So basically your upset because this mention black people. Do I think this is racist NO. I believe racists would try to hijack the term racist and throw it around because they are called racist a lot actually. It's funny how most people of different backgrounds are okay. The only the people who are upset are ones who can't tolerate diversity, or else there's nothing to be upset about.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by tonygeorgia

All of this after 400 years of slavery. I'm sure the parents of some of the people in this thread owned slaves

Parents?

Meanwhile, most of the rest of us whites had families who weren't even in the country during the American Civil War, or (like me) who were farmers in the upper midwest and were more concerned with keeping warm and straightening the sod on their houses than in owning other human beings. That was not a supported concept in Switzerland, my own ancestral home.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by brownhornet

It's so pathetic that as far as "recognition" goes, James Lucas had to finance this movie Red Tails out of his own pocket because no studio thought it was a good enough story to showcase the Tuskegee Airmen.

It's George Lucas, but I agree with you 100%. As a pilot and a historian, I am incredibly proud of what the Tuskegee Airmen did, and their story should be celebrated by all Americans.

I plan to take my 15 year old son to see it when it opens, and to explain to him more about how they were the only fighter escort unit in the USAAF who didn't lose a single bomber to enemy fighters. All that on top of dealing with the prejudice that was rampant.

I think though from my perspective, those men weren't great black pilots, they were great American pilots. It really is a shame that others don't view it that way.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by neil0311

It's George Lucas, but I agree with you 100%. As a pilot and a historian, I am incredibly proud of what the Tuskegee Airmen did, and their story should be celebrated by all Americans.

I plan to take my 15 year old son to see it when it opens, and to explain to him more about how they were the only fighter escort unit in the USAAF who didn't lose a single bomber to enemy fighters. All that on top of dealing with the prejudice that was rampant.

I think though from my perspective, those men weren't great black pilots, they were great American pilots. It really is a shame that others don't view it that way.

Great post, Brother Neil.

[northwinds]

Originally Posted by neil0311

It's George Lucas, but I agree with you 100%. As a pilot and a historian, I am incredibly proud of what the Tuskegee Airmen did, and their story should be celebrated by all Americans.

I plan to take my 15 year old son to see it when it opens, and to explain to him more about how they were the only fighter escort unit in the USAAF who didn't lose a single bomber to enemy fighters. All that on top of dealing with the prejudice that was rampant.

I think though from my perspective, those men weren't great black pilots, they were great American pilots. It really is a shame that others don't view it that way.

You might want to tell your 15 year old son about Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy at the same time......the whole "didn't lose a single bomber to ememy fighters" is a myth. In fact they lost a least 25 bombers without a single one of their fighters being shot down.....pretty pathetic numbers really. Not to mention that they came into the war at a time when most German planes were being flown by poorly trained youngsters who were being thrown into the fight due to devastating loses from U.S., British and Russian fighters:

Tuskegee Airmen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by lorilove

There is nothing wrong with a special interest group honoring their own. There are Jewish Achievement Awards, Latin Grammy Awards and all sorts of Women awards etc etc etc

Racism is when you think that one's own race is superior to another which is not what these awards are trying to communicate

There are no male achievement or euro-american specific awards because it is just tacky to celebrate a group that is in the majority and already dominates general interest awards

Truth.com

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by northwinds

You might want to tell your 15 year old son about Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy at the same time......the whole "didn't lose a single bomber to ememy fighters" is a myth. In fact they lost a least 25 bombers without a single one of their fighters being shot down.....pretty pathetic numbers really. Not to mention that they came into the war at a time when most German planes were being flown by poorly trained youngsters who were being thrown into the fight due to devastating loses from U.S., British and Russian fighters:

Tuskegee Airmen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pathetic? Even if they did lose 25 out of the thousands of bombers escorted in more than 1500 missions and 15K sorties (and that new revelation is only put forth by one historian but could be correct), that's a hell of a good record. They also shot down some of the first German jets to be encoutered and had the following record:

The Tuskegee Airmen compiled the following combat records:

• 261 aircraft destroyed
• 148 aircraft damaged
• 15,533 sorties
• 1,578 missions
• 66 KIA
• 95 Distinguished Flying Crosses awarded
• 450 Pilots sent overseas.

[northwinds]

Originally Posted by neil0311

Pathetic? Even if they did lose 25 out of the thousands of bombers escorted in more than 1500 missions and 15K sorties (and that new revelation is only put forth by one historian but could be correct), that's a hell of a good record. They also shot down some of the first German jets to be encoutered and had the following record:

Link please. Losing 25 bombers while not losing a single fighter plane that were supposed to be protecting the bombers is a bit dubious don't you think....... It is also clear that the government was trying to promote these units in the press.....thus, the myth that they "never lost a bomber" was created.....so I would look at any stats or alleged accomplishments with great scrutiny. But facts be damned, the movie will have every kid in America thinking that the Tuskegee Airmen "turned the tide in WWII".......LOL at the silliness.....and a few of those pilots and airmen (e.g. DoLittle and crew) who really took on the Germans and Japanese when they were at full strength are probably a bit pissed off at all the attention given to these last minute "heroes".....

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by northwinds

Link please.

WTF is your problem? Why do seem to have a vested interest in trying to dispute the accomplishments of these fine pilots? I have heard other accomplished white fighter pilots praise these men and discuss their accomplishments. Do the names Yeager and Gabresksi mean anything?

Happy now? I found a US Gov't site.

Air Power:The Tuskegee Airmen (http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Air_Power/tuskegee/AP26.htm - broken link)

"On March 24, 1945, the 332nd went on the longest mission flown by the 15th Air Force, to the Daimler-Benz tank works in Berlin. On this mission, it downed three Messerschmitt Me-262 (http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Dictionary/MESSERSCHMITT/DI187.htm - broken link) jet fighters. The group received a Distinguished Unit Citation for its performance that day."

Incidentally, here is another quote from that page:

"The 332nd continued to fly until the end of the war. It flew more than 1,500 sorties, and counted 111 kills (plus one destroyer sunk using a plane’s machine gun). Its members received 150 Distinguished Flying Crosses. But their most important achievement was never losing a single bomber to enemy aircraft--the only escort unit with that record."

Losing a bomber to flak or to ground fire is not the same as to enemy fighters. Seems to me there is a difference of opinion on that record. The US Gov't's opinion is in the quote.