Atlanta Streetcar (Downtown Loop) progress (Dallas, Washington: leasing, highrise, job)

[MDAllstar]

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

Who cares? The point is that if BRT can serve DC's denser suburbs than BRT could also serve Atlanta. The areas of Silver Spring, Maryland the BRT is set to serve range from 5,000 to 12,000 ppsm. That's denser than most of the route Atlanta's streetcar will serve. So it's not that population density will overwhelm a BRT line. That's just silly.

Downtown Silver Spring has census tracts that reach over 30,000 people per square mile along the BRT Line.

[MDAllstar]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Yes. Downtown Atlanta is denser and will continue to grow denser than DC suburbs.

Downtown Atlanta is not denser than D.C.'s suburbs. The Atlanta region's densest census tract is 21,189 people per square mile in Midtown Atlanta. Here are a few places in D.C. for comparison:

D.C. Suburbs

-Ballston 47,691 people per square mile
-Alexandria 44,419 people per square mile
-Rosslyn 44,245 people per square mile
-Clarendon 35,570 people per square mile
-Silver Spring 30,139 people per square mile

Mapping the 2010 U.S. Census - NYTimes.com

[jsvh]

The Beltline and streetcar will serve some census tracks that have more the 50,000 ppsm. But that is not the only thing that should be looked at. For example the airport has 0 ppsm but has connections to two highways and a HRT transit station that gets some of the busiest usage.

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by cqholt

LRT is better suited for the BeltLine. The density on the eastside trail warrants rail-based transit and by connecting it to the downtown streetcar it will not require a transfer for riders from Virginia-Highland or Glenwood Park to Downtown or Midtown. Preventing transfer will encourage more use.

What density on the East Side? Are you talking about the booming census tract with a population density of 9,733 ppsm?

But residential density is not the only thing that drives transit use. Employment density is usually an even stronger predictor of transit ridership. Atlanta does not fare well on this metric either.

//www.city-data.com/forum/city-...mployment.html

Not suprisingly, the cities with the highest transit ridership also have the highest number of employees in their respective CBD(s).

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by MDAllstar

Downtown Atlanta is not denser than D.C.'s suburbs. The Atlanta region's densest census tract is 21,189 people per square mile in Midtown Atlanta. Here are a few places in D.C. for comparison:

D.C. Suburbs

-Ballston 47,691 people per square mile
-Alexandria 44,419 people per square mile
-Rosslyn 44,245 people per square mile
-Clarendon 35,570 people per square mile
-Silver Spring 30,139 people per square mile

Mapping the 2010 U.S. Census - NYTimes.com

The DC area has benefited from having one of the largest Heavy rail transit networks in the country that serves those areas. Do you not think those are a factor in the growth and density in DC?

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by jsvh

The Beltline and streetcar will serve some census tracks that have more the 50,000 ppsm. But that is not the only thing that should be looked at. For example the airport has 0 ppsm but has connections to two highways and a HRT transit station that gets some of the busiest usage.

And where are these 50,000 ppsm census tracts going to come from? Atlanta doesn't even have a tract that dense in Midtown little less a census tract on the periphery.

[jsvh]

Try: GA block group 131210011.002 or 131210028.001

But what is your point? Are you suggesting that DC waited until it was this densely populated to start building its expansive transit network?

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by jsvh

The DC area has benefited from having one of the largest Heavy rail transit networks in the country that serves those areas. Do you not think those are a factor in the growth and density in DC?

The District of Columbia was actually much, much denser than it currently is when Metrorail was first proposed. And it was historically a very centralized city with a large downtown workforce (nearly 3x that of DTATL).

Employment in International Central Business Districts Ranked by Number of Jobs

I think you're missing the point that you need to have demand for rail right now. When projects get built in DC, they're not hoping that the demand comes, they know the demand is already there because so much of the workforce is already located near Metro stops in Downtown or other areas (i.e, Tyson's, Bethesda, etc.).

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by jsvh

But what is your point? Are you suggesting that DC waited until it was this densely populated to start building its expansive transit network?

The city was already densely populated before Metro was built. During Metro's planning phase, the city had a population density just shy of 13,000 ppsm. And the structural density of the city (very limited parking) plus the large workforce (only behind NYC and Chicago) dictated that a heavy rail system be built. It would simply be impossible to move a half million people into and out of the CBD on a daily basis without heavy rail.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

The city was already densely populated before Metro was built. During Metro's planning phase, the city had a population density just shy of 13,000 ppsm. And the structural density of the city (very limited parking) plus the large workforce (only behind NYC and Chicago) dictated that a heavy rail system be built. It would simply be impossible to move a half million people into and out of the CBD on a daily basis without heavy rail.

But you realize that Atlanta was also heavily urbanized, dense, and centralized job center before we built highways, correct? But DC funded their Metro where Atlanta did relatively little. We got sprawl, they got density as designed to be supported by transportation planners.