Why can't Atlanta do this? (condo, to buy, buses)

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by testa50

Way to go, Charlotte!

Looks like ~8 miles for $580 million, or ~$75 million a mile. I still think that for extensions of existing lines, we need to stick to the more expensive HRT technology. It's just better, gets higher ridership, allows us to use our existing maintenance and support facilities, and prevents people from having to transfer. For brand new lines, LRT should be considered.

Edit: nevermind, according got the wiki article, the cost is more like $1.16 billion. I guess the locals are paying for the other half.

Yep!

It is a $1.2 billion 9 mile extension. The $580m is the Federal matching funds.

A quick word about earlier comments... That is the -capital- expense.

Our TSPLOST projects included a mix of capital and operations for 10 years. MARTA projects included 10 years of operations costs in their TSPLOST requests. This was -part- of the cost difference.

The Emory to Lindbergh -LRT- estimates were for 8.3 miles:

capital: $1.15billion
ROW: 10.1million
Annual operations: 15.3 million

http://itsmarta.com/uploadedFiles/Ab...t_4-9-2012.pdf

This plan was for running along the CSX tracks between emory and Lindbergh and along the streets further east.

The overall costs would be less if they only built the portion between Lindbergh and Emory/CDC.

The first section to Emory/CDC would make a bigger regional impact for connecting a major jobs center. to the existing system The second section running to Avondale offers more redevelopment advantages and adding more residential areas to transit.

So the capital costs are slightly more expensive, largely because there are a few tunnels and bridges involved. Charlotte's system is close to entirely being at street level with some bridges. This probably leads to most of the cost difference, but its not as large as you might think.

The costs also doubles if you make it HRT.

[cqholt]

Besides DC who else has extended there heavy rail system ??

NYC, 2nd ave Subway Second Avenue Subway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
LA, Westside Subway Extension Westside Subway Extension - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Miami, Airport Link AirportLink (Miami) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cities that have existing HRT usually choose to extend those lines rather than create a LRT from the end of a HRT that users will need to transfer. Concept 3 for Atlanta has a dumb idea of using LRT from North Springs to Windward Pkwy. Just extend the Red Line.

[testa50]

Originally Posted by cqholt

NYC, 2nd ave Subway Second Avenue Subway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
LA, Westside Subway Extension Westside Subway Extension - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Miami, Airport Link AirportLink (Miami) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cities that have existing HRT usually choose to extend those lines rather than create a LRT from the end of a HRT that users will need to transfer. Concept 3 for Atlanta has a dumb idea of using LRT from North Springs to Windward Pkwy. Just extend the Red Line.

I agree Red Line extension is vastly better. They'd have to acquire brand new rolling stock, create a station capable of transferring passengers, and have new maintenance/storage facilities if they switched technologies. Might as well just share costs with the HRT system and enjoy a better service for the higher cost.

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by brownhornet

Yet its already had 17 million riders. Let people on here tell it it'd be pointless because no one would ride. Some people are progressive, and then there's Georgia.

Wow! A whole 15,000 boardings per day? Someone should write an article about this monumental success.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Concept 3 for Atlanta has a dumb idea of using LRT from North Springs to Windward Pkwy. Just extend the Red Line.

I was wishy-washy about this as well, but its a good idea on two merits

-It go twice as far for the money. This important given far growth has gone at this point (and with lower density)
-That LRT didn't end at North Springs, it circulated in the Perimeter area ending near 285 at an east-west line.
-Concept 3 was built to be a cohesive regional plan, as well. The east-west connection on 285 and the Gwinnett and Cobb portion was also suppose to grade separated LRT. There is a pretty degree of commuting across the northside and there was an advantage that trains from Gwinnett or Cobb or N. Fulton could turn and inter-connect with one another w/o transfer. The North line wouldn't have to dead end into the Perimeter area. I sort of liked the idea you could live at a redeveloped GM doraville site and take the same train to Perimeter or North point.

The advantage of LRT is there for Cobb and Gwinnett commuters going to N. Fulton. It was also an advantage for N. Fulton commuters going to the perimeter area. The only disadvantage would be for N. Fulton and Gwinnett commuters going into town would be the ones transferring.

In other words... at least all the new parts of the system in Concept 3 could interconnect + add additional circulation and that is actually where a high amount of northside commuters go.

[ATLTJL]

Wow! A whole 15,000 boardings per day? Someone should write an article about this monumental success.

There actually is some validity to this.

If there have been 17 million riders since the system opened in 2007, let's just do quick and dirty arithmetic and figure that is 3.4 million riders per year. I'll use the best case scenario and assume that every rider rode round trip and didn't use a weekly or monthly pass and assume $4 per rider. So that would mean that the system took in $13.6 million per year.

I know that mass transit never achieves actual solvency, especially when considering capital expenditures, but is this even enough to keep the line running without incurring a loss every year?

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

Wow! A whole 15,000 boardings per day? Someone should write an article about this monumental success.

They already have, there's no system in the south quite like it yet, but we're getting there. Glad you agree it's a monumental success of a system, speaks to what Atlanta could do if we just applied ourselves.

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

There actually is some validity to this.

If there have been 17 million riders since the system opened in 2007, let's just do quick and dirty arithmetic and figure that is 3.4 million riders per year. I'll use the best case scenario and assume that every rider rode round trip and didn't use a weekly or monthly pass and assume $4 per rider. So that would mean that the system took in $13.6 million per year.

I know that mass transit never achieves actual solvency, especially when considering capital expenditures, but is this even enough to keep the line running without incurring a loss every year?

Of course there is validity to this. I wrote it.

That is a cute little system for a 2nd rate city like Charlotte.

Meanwhile our system, as flawed as it is (I may have pointed these out a time or two) is doing 17 times that amount every day.

We should be so envious of Charlotte

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

Of course there is validity to this. I wrote it.

That is a cute little system for a 2nd rate city like Charlotte.

Meanwhile our system, as flawed as it is (I may have pointed these out a time or two) is doing 17 times that amount every day.

We should be so envious of Charlotte

Wow, gtcorndog actually praising a transit system for the first time? Never thought I'd see the day.

Shouldn't this be reason enough for them to expand MARTA to areas outside of the perimiter?

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

Wow, gtcorndog actually praising a transit system for the first time? Never thought I'd see the day.

Shouldn't this be reason enough for them to expand MARTA to areas outside of the perimiter?

I have called for the expansion of MARTA outside the perimeter. I would like to see it expanded into Gwinnett and Cobb Counties along I-85 and I-75. I am a Cobb resident and would vote for it. I DO NOT want a slow, crappy light rail system into the county. Do it right, or don't do it. I bash the system a lot, but it does have value. I don't like the way it is run and I did not like the ridiculously worthless expansion plan included in the TSPLOST.

Someone needs to play devil's advocate on here to keep you loons grounded. I'll play that role.