2012 SAT/GPA for public colleges and universities: UGA, Tech set records, averages increases overall (Atlanta: living, housing)
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Food service people are not faculty. They're the same kind of people that would get hired at McDonalds or B-Dubs. Schools don't hire PhD food service people. Some are nice, some are not.
SPSU has the fourth highest SAT score, not the third. SAT is good, but GPA is not. Even GSU posted a higher GPA. Is that due to difference in course-load? I do not know. It is possible. It is still a measure for admissions. Grade inflation may exist, but really someone is getting a 3.2 at a grade inflated school while someone else is getting a 4.0. It's all somewhat standardized in the end.
If these students are going to SPSU and transferring to GT, which is probably the case, then that still makes SPSU an inefficient institution based on numerical productivity. No need to pay a university president salary for a community college with engineering. Less students than a 1000 students are getting educated there, and that is my point. SPSU isn't a well-endowed, private liberal arts school that can afford such things.
I do not endorse research at SPSU. My whole reasoning against a GSU-SPSU merger is the fact that GSU might try to capitalize on engineering research would cannibalize our entire USG ecosystem. GA Southern already collects the engineering research not given to UGA or Georgia Tech. We've been able to cede over some south Georgian facilities to GA So, but Tech might not feel so kindly on SPSU doing the same. Especially if alumni are disgruntled about their emancipation(but again, most USG schools started out as UGA or Georgia Tech).
GSU would once more be diverging their resources elsewhere. They would make the Sun Belt jump without having garnered enough skill and following in the CAA. SPSU's coveted applied engineering curriculum would be phased out as the research faculty takeover. Wouldn't that make SPSU moot? I am for a KSU-SPSU merger because KSU won't try to compete with Georgia Southern.
Yes, taxpayer dollars only cover roughly 32-35% of the budget for USG schools. My point remains. I was evaluating how much is spent on SPSU relative to the number of students they produce. By the way, funding is no longer based on enrollment, it is based on graduation rates. I think there is a lot of excess going on at SPSU, and it would be better if KSU could fix them up. Maybe if given the newfound student life at KSU, more students would stay? I'm sure there are plenty of students even at UGA that end up transferring to Tech. In a rare isolated cases, maybe even Emory. I would rather build up a better program through a consolidated school.
I still think KSU is on a quicker up-swing than other USG institutions.
GSU back then had a flat enrollment and even saw a significant enrollment decline. Ga Southern and especially KSU were on a constant upward climb. Those were not GSU's halcyon days. It was only recently that GSU's enrollment shot up. What GSU enjoys now was because of the efforts of former president Patton. It takes time to turn a ship. If there are mergers in Atlanta, it could affect GSU if it can have some suburban campuses, and make GSU more dynamic in how it serves the Atlanta community. And as I said over and over again SPSU could be significant merger partner as GSU would have engineering which can bring in significant research dollars. And combining the schools I mentioned above would probably make for a better, more efficient, and more cost effective athletic program.
That drop was a result of a decrease in enrollment at smaller Georgia schools. Bainsbridge at -21.3%, Waycross at -13.6%, Middle GA at -9.3%, Gordon St at -10.6%, GPC at -12.5%, East GA at -14.3%, Costal College of GA at -9.2%, Fort Valley St at -8.4%, Albany St at -8.3%, Valdosta St at -4.4%.
None of GSU's competitors saw a decrease in enrollment.
GSU had a 0.2% increase
GA Southern had a 1.8% increase
KSU had a 1.8% increase.
GSU is THE commuter school for metro Atlanta. GSU is where post-bacc students go. It is the closest school to home for many people. A GGC merger would work wonders for them. GGC also has residential campuses. Frankly, they have more of a 'student life' atmosphere than GSU does in Atlanta.
How do you figure SPSU will suddenly fall behind GSU's 10-1 losing football team? I can't see the reasoning behind that. Regurgitating everything I have said in my previous thread, a GSU-SPSU merger would further fortify GSU, a research university, as a stepping stone for students wanting to transfer to Tech. The transfer partnership with Tech would take SPSU's problem and make it Georgia State's problem.
[SIZE=3]Dichlor, you alluded to the fact that Mr. Threadgill, some unnamed educators and professionals had made some disparaging remarks about SPSU, yet you gave no quotes or concept of their statements’ content.[/SIZE] [SIZE=3] [/SIZE] [SIZE=3]Dichlor, all these words are yours… whose on first?-[/SIZE] [SIZE=3] [/SIZE] [SIZE=3]Pro?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]“Nobody is saying that SPSU is a "lesser" school. Well, maybe at Tech, but certianly not anyone who I have spoken to.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Con?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]“Dr. Threadgill is the former dean. All I have noted has been from reading articles or word of mouth. I have no insider info to present to you. This is common info among faculty in the USG.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Con?[/SIZE] [SIZE=3]“You have to understand, I'm only regurgitating what I have heard from engineering faculty and professionals. I am a chemist, I'm not an engineer. Although I have taught engineering classes before, thermodynamics. I'm only citing the sources and passing on the word. Don't shoot the messenger. I'm pretty much repeating what Dale Threadgill, founding dean of the College of Engineering, said about a year ago.”[/SIZE] [SIZE=3] [/SIZE] [SIZE=3]Con?[/SIZE] [SIZE=3]“UGA's engineering is not at the level of SPSU and GA Southern whether your measure is research, quality of undergraduate and/or graduate students or facilities. I can't comment on the instruction because I haven't looked at all of it.”[/SIZE] [SIZE=3] [/SIZE] [SIZE=3]Con?[/SIZE] [SIZE=3]“I also want to make it perfectly clear that I don't doubt the academic potential of SPSU. I want a consolidation to go through so that SPSU's applied engineering focus can flourish instead of struggling as it is doing now.”[/SIZE] [SIZE=3] [/SIZE] [SIZE=3]Academic potential? What about it’s present academics? How is SPSU now struggling? With the high growth rate in enrollment and SAT scores, several new buildings on campus, and high starting salaries for graduates, how is SPSU struggling?[/SIZE] [SIZE=3] [/SIZE] [SIZE=3]Official USG SAT scores from 11.1.2012 [/SIZE][SIZE=3]http://www.usg.edu/research/documents/freshmen/ftf_sat_fall_2012_IPEDS.pdf[/SIZE] [SIZE=3] [/SIZE] [SIZE=3]You say SPSU is lacking in research. The school is not a research institution. It’s a teaching college. That’s made clear in catalog statements.[/SIZE] [SIZE=3] [/SIZE] [SIZE=3]The fact that SPSU’s GPA’s are comparatively low was brought up. They are. With relatively high SAT scores and low average GPA’s, it is logical for GPA’s to be lower because of a rigorous curriculum. [/SIZE] [SIZE=3] [/SIZE] [SIZE=3]It takes a long time for SPSU students to graduate. That is true when a bachelor’s degree from SPSU required 210-214 quater hurs to graduate, versus 180 quarter hours for a bachelor’s degree from UGA, it does take longer.[/SIZE] [SIZE=3] [/SIZE] [SIZE=3]You are right about one thing. It isn’t overly difficult to get into SPSU. It is difficult to stay in and graduate. USG funding is partially based upon freshman enrollment. I would think most USG schools use this fact to their advantage.[/SIZE] [SIZE=3] [/SIZE] [SIZE=3]You infer that SPSU is a jumping point to GT. In one sense that could be a compliment. Just how many students transfer from SPSU to GT? How many transfer from GT to SPSU? I would like to know.[/SIZE] [SIZE=3] [/SIZE] [SIZE=3]Several on this site have remarked on SPSU’s lack of value and performance. Someone needs to call Lockheed Martin and tell them. The firm has more engineers from SPSU than from any other college.[/SIZE] [SIZE=3] [/SIZE] [SIZE=3]Lockheed Martin statement- [/SIZE][SIZE=3]http://mdjonline.com/view/full_story/20407994/article-Lockheed-VP-praises-SPSU-grads-at-%E2%80%98Polyday%E2%80%99-event[/SIZE]
Dichlor, you alluded to the fact that Mr. Threadgill, some unnamed educators and professionals had made some disparaging remarks about SPSU, yet you gave no quotes or concept of their statements’ content.
Dichlor, all these words are yours… whose on first?-
Pro? “Nobody is saying that SPSU is a "lesser" school. Well, maybe at Tech, but certianly not anyone who I have spoken to.”
Con?
“Dr. Threadgill is the former dean. All I have noted has been from reading articles or word of mouth. I have no insider info to present to you. This is common info among faculty in the USG.”
Con? “You have to understand, I'm only regurgitating what I have heard from engineering faculty and professionals. I am a chemist, I'm not an engineer. Although I have taught engineering classes before, thermodynamics. I'm only citing the sources and passing on the word. Don't shoot the messenger. I'm pretty much repeating what Dale Threadgill, founding dean of the College of Engineering, said about a year ago.”
Con? “UGA's engineering is not at the level of SPSU and GA Southern whether your measure is research, quality of undergraduate and/or graduate students or facilities. I can't comment on the instruction because I haven't looked at all of it.”
Con? “I also want to make it perfectly clear that I don't doubt the academic potential of SPSU. I want a consolidation to go through so that SPSU's applied engineering focus can flourish instead of struggling as it is doing now.”
Academic potential? What about it’s present academics? How is SPSU now struggling? With the high growth rate in enrollment and SAT scores, several new buildings on campus, and high starting salaries for graduates, how is SPSU struggling?
You say SPSU is lacking in research. The school is not a research institution. It’s a teaching college. That’s made clear in catalog statements.
The fact that SPSU student GPA’s are comparatively low was brought up. They are. With relatively high SAT scores and low average GPA’s, it is logical for GPA’s to be lower because of a rigorous curriculum. I agree that entering freshman GPA's are not as high as at a few other schools.
It takes a long time for SPSU students to graduate. That is true when a bachelor’s degree from SPSU required 210-214 quater hurs to graduate, versus 180 quarter hours for a bachelor’s degree from UGA, it does take longer. Measures have been taken to lessen that gap, as is understood.
You are right about one thing. It isn’t overly difficult to get into SPSU. It is difficult to stay in and graduate. USG funding is partially based upon freshman enrollment. I would think most USG schools use this fact to their advantage.
You infer that SPSU is a jumping point to GT. In one sense that could be a compliment. Just how many students transfer from SPSU to GT? How many transfer from GT to SPSU? I would like to know.
Several on this site have remarked on SPSU’s lack of value and performance. Someone needs to call Lockheed Martin and tell them. The firm has more engineers from SPSU than from any other college.
Sadly, you can look at the trends in GSU enrollment over the past 10 years and there is a common reason why the school is back on a downward trend. Notice how both Morehouse and GSU have low graduation rates. What is the common factor between the two now? What was not the common factor between the two 10-20 years ago? Anyone with a brain will figure it out. Chef Ramsey has implicitly stated it many times on this forum. It makes you wonder whether or not diversity really is a good thing.
It will be interesting to see whether or not GSU can rebound despite application trends. I'd like to think it's just that the Class of 2016 was never a good class, even when I was back in highschool.
Sadly, you can look at the trends in GSU enrollment over the past 10 years and there is a common reason why the school is back on a downward trend. Notice how both Morehouse and GSU have low graduation rates. What is the common factor between the two now? What was not the common factor between the two 10-20 years ago? Anyone with a brain will figure it out. Chef Ramsey has implicitly stated it many times on this forum. It makes you wonder whether or not diversity really is a good thing.
It will be interesting to see whether or not GSU can rebound despite application trends. I'd like to think it's just that the Class of 2016 was never a good class, even when I was back in highschool.
What sense does that make? Every other school in Georgia posted all-time highs including UGA and Tech. Even KSU posted a higher SAT score than us. 2016 was a great class.
I'm not blaming diversity. I'm blaming GSU's administration that doesn't care about academics. If they cared about their school's reputation and their students then they would increase admissions standards and risk the decreased enrollment(many students who use GSU as a back up will go to better schools like UGA and Tech). They would not worry about football and acknowledge that in college sports you have haves and have-nots. They wouldn't spend so much money on crappy dining halls and dorms and worry about first building the academic integrity of the school. I agree GSU's aspirational peers need to be schools like GSU. They need to be big time minority schools, public, poorly funded with a low endowment, research universities located in a city.
They use to, and that's why some people like mathman still believe them to be up and coming, but the truth is they never were. I think it's the new president. Now they just try to sell the school with dorms, football and all these speakers like John Legend. It's all a marketing stunt. It's just a trick.
ant, diversity is the only thing that separates GSU from another garbage diploma mill. That "most african american graduates" is a title GSU has. Plus, as UGA gets more diverse, GSU will lose that title too. They have to do something or continue to be surpassed by non-research universities.
Last edited by ChefRamsey; 03-03-2013 at 10:38 AM..
GSU's going downhill. I just looked up the admission data. Fall 2011 had 12,555 applications. Fall 2012 had 12,349. Fall 2013 had 11,769 applications. All first-year freshman admissions.
And also SAT/GPA goes down by year. I wonder what this year will bring..
I hope people applying can figure out GSU's true colors. Thanks to Drake and other publicity and these threads I think people can finally learn the truth.
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