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With all the talk going on about the Beltline, Atlanta Streetcar (downtown), and various ideas for East/West connector streetcars, let's talk about another Atlanta LRT/Streetcar project that has lots of popular appeal: the Peachtree Streetcar. (This is for you, arjay.)
The idea is theoretically to connect Downtown, Midtown, and Buckhead along Peachtree Street. However, most people who comment on this stuff seriously seem to be in agreement that the most important segment is from Arts Center Station (Midtown) to Buckhead Station. This segment has no rail transit service, but is extremely congested and fast-growing.
The MARTA bus schedules are a nod to the importance of Midtown - Buckhead connectivity idea as well: the Arts Center - Buckhead route is one of a handful that operate on a 15-minute basis into the evening; it is less frequent between Midtown and Downtown.
So, how should the Peachtree Streetcar look? How should it tie into Midtown and Buckhead? How much should it impede on the driving lanes of Peachtree?
I've grappled a lot with this during my travels on this stretch of Peachtree, as a frequent motorist, rider of the 110 bus, and pedestrian:
- The traffic situation on Peachtree is deplorable, and with new apartments coming to the area by the thousands, it only figures to get worse. There aren't even any left turn lanes, besides in a few select spots. I just can't fathom consuming any capacity by adding a streetcar into the mix.
- A streetcar simply figures to become part of the congestion and inch along anyways. It will be just like a bus.
- Once you're on foot, Peachtree is no better: the sidewalks are narrow and dangerous. Walking along the road is plain awful.
My ultimate vision for Peachtree Street is pretty radical. It would certainly cost in the billions. Here it is:
Turn Peachtree Street into a grade-separated through-way. Two lanes in either direction will run underground, with occasional on/off ramps for connections to key surface streets. On the surface, you'll have bi-directional, dedicated streetcar tracks in the middle, with single vehicle lanes on either side of the streetcar tracks. This will leave plenty of room for expanded sidewalks/bike lanes/green space in most places, as well as the occasional left turn lane and on/off ramp from the throughway. Stations will be in the middle of the two streetcar tracks, as is common in other cities.
In the end, you'd have a roadway with way more vehicle capacity. Intersecting roads would have far better service, since the bulk of the through traffic would be underground. Visitors would still be able to drive the road and enjoy it on the surface, while residents looking to get quickly to and from their places of residence/work would be able to do so much more quickly. Pedestrian access would be way better, and the street would be far less dangerous and noisy. Streetcar service would be far superior to what it would be mixed with traffic.
It think this condition should be maintained starting at Arts Center and going up to Brookhaven Station. 6.5 miles. Bridges will be tricky: local traffic and through traffic will temporarily have to mingle in roughly four locations (85 Crossing, CSX Crossing, Peachtree Creek Crossing, GA 400 Crossing). The construction itself will be arduous.
But I just don't see any other way it can be done, and actually lead to a real improvement. A streetcar will cost hundreds of millions of dollars anyways; shouldn't we actually go out and fix the problem, if we're going to do anything at all?
To complement the project, the entire corridor should be zoned for high density, particularly in the nodes that don't have too much in the way of surrounding SFH. This will be a tremendous boon to property values in the area, and zoning needs to change to allow this to be maximized.
So what do you think? Outrageously pie-in-the-sky? What does YOUR idea for a Peachtree Streetcar look like?
Turn Peachtree Street into a grade-separated through-way. Two lanes in either direction will run underground, with occasional on/off ramps for connections to key surface streets. On the surface, you'll have bi-directional, dedicated streetcar tracks in the middle, with single vehicle lanes on either side of the streetcar tracks. This will leave plenty of room for expanded sidewalks/bike lanes/green space in most places, as well as the occasional left turn lane and on/off ramp from the throughway. Stations will be in the middle of the two streetcar tracks, as is common in other cities.
Terrible idea. This is a 180 from the complete streets projects. Peachtree does not need to be turned into a freeway. Traffic on Peachtree needs to be slowed down, if people want to go fast then take 400!
Idea for the Peachtree streetcar:
Run the streetcar on the 2 outer lanes, closet to the sidewalks. This will allow riders to see the shops at street-level.
Have covered stops every 2 blocks. No need for anything big, just a simple shelter with LED display of next arriving streetcar.
When Peachtree does expand to 3 lanes in each direction, narrow it to 2 lanes with a median and protected left-turn lanes. Streetcars should be given priority at traffic lights, when a streetcar is approaching a light that is about to turn red, the light should hold green long enough for the streetcar to make it through the intersection.
Where there is major developments, BA, Peachtree Battle shopping center, Piedmont Hospital, etc. there could be a lane for the streetcar to pull into with blocking traffic, similar to bus turnout Bus turnout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
High density, mixed use development should be built along the corridor with street level retail.
Minimize the curb cutouts.
During construction, switches and track should be built for future lines up Roswell Road at the Buckhead Village split.
The streetcar should terminate at Brookhaven station, but Brookhaven will need to fund a portion of the project since it is in there jurisdiction.
Terrible idea. This is a 180 from the complete streets projects. Peachtree does not need to be turned into a freeway. Traffic on Peachtree needs to be slowed down, if people want to go fast then take 400!
This isn't a complete 180 from complete streets at all.
The fast-moving cars will be underground. This is by far the safest and most pedestrian-friendly approach. With through traffic moving underground at 45-50mph, you can feasibly impose a speed limit of 25-30mph for surface traffic.
Quote:
Idea for the Peachtree streetcar:
Run the streetcar on the 2 outer lanes, closet to the sidewalks. This will allow riders to see the shops at street-level.
Have covered stops every 2 blocks. No need for anything big, just a simple shelter with LED display of next arriving streetcar.
When Peachtree does expand to 3 lanes in each direction, narrow it to 2 lanes with a median and protected left-turn lanes. Streetcars should be given priority at traffic lights, when a streetcar is approaching a light that is about to turn red, the light should hold green long enough for the streetcar to make it through the intersection.
Where there is major developments, BA, Peachtree Battle shopping center, Piedmont Hospital, etc. there could be a lane for the streetcar to pull into with blocking traffic, similar to bus turnout Bus turnout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
High density, mixed use development should be built along the corridor with street level retail.
Minimize the curb cutouts.
During construction, switches and track should be built for future lines up Roswell Road at the Buckhead Village split.
The streetcar should terminate at Brookhaven station, but Brookhaven will need to fund a portion of the project since it is in there jurisdiction.
I don't think the folks in Buckhead will take kindly to a lane of Peachtree being removed in each direction. And in most places, Peachtree is six lanes jammed into ~60 feet. There simply isn't space for left turns lanes, in addition to two lanes in each direction plus two streetcar tracks. And the sidewalks remain woefully small, and without bike lanes, unless we can somehow find more ROW.
I just don't think Peachtree has the width to do everything everyone wants it to do at-grade. We need to explore other options.
This isn't a complete 180 from complete streets at all.
The fast-moving cars will be underground. This is by far the safest and most pedestrian-friendly approach. With through traffic moving underground at 45-50mph, you can feasibly impose a speed limit of 25-30mph for surface traffic.
I don't think the folks in Buckhead will take kindly to a lane of Peachtree being removed in each direction. And in most places, Peachtree is six lanes jammed into ~60 feet. There simply isn't space for left turns lanes, in addition to two lanes in each direction plus two streetcar tracks. And the sidewalks remain woefully small, and without bike lanes, unless we can somehow find more ROW.
I just don't think Peachtree has the width to do everything everyone wants it to do at-grade.
Buckhead will probably need it the most. You know how much traffic will be in Buckhead once BA opens next year lol
Terrible idea. This is a 180 from the complete streets projects. Peachtree does not need to be turned into a freeway. Traffic on Peachtree needs to be slowed down, if people want to go fast then take 400!
Idea for the Peachtree streetcar:
Run the streetcar on the 2 outer lanes, closet to the sidewalks. This will allow riders to see the shops at street-level.
Have covered stops every 2 blocks. No need for anything big, just a simple shelter with LED display of next arriving streetcar.
When Peachtree does expand to 3 lanes in each direction, narrow it to 2 lanes with a median and protected left-turn lanes. Streetcars should be given priority at traffic lights, when a streetcar is approaching a light that is about to turn red, the light should hold green long enough for the streetcar to make it through the intersection.
Where there is major developments, BA, Peachtree Battle shopping center, Piedmont Hospital, etc. there could be a lane for the streetcar to pull into with blocking traffic, similar to bus turnout Bus turnout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
High density, mixed use development should be built along the corridor with street level retail.
Minimize the curb cutouts.
During construction, switches and track should be built for future lines up Roswell Road at the Buckhead Village split.
The streetcar should terminate at Brookhaven station, but Brookhaven will need to fund a portion of the project since it is in there jurisdiction.
With all the talk going on about the Beltline, Atlanta Streetcar (downtown), and various ideas for East/West connector streetcars, let's talk about another Atlanta LRT/Streetcar project that has lots of popular appeal: the Peachtree Streetcar. (This is for you, arjay.)
The idea is theoretically to connect Downtown, Midtown, and Buckhead along Peachtree Street. However, most people who comment on this stuff seriously seem to be in agreement that the most important segment is from Arts Center Station (Midtown) to Buckhead Station. This segment has no rail transit service, but is extremely congested and fast-growing.
Umm Buckhead, Lenox, Linburgh, Art Center & Midtown stations would like to see you in the office....
I say make the street like many streets in NYC and Chicago that are considered "main streets" in an area: one lane in each direction. Definitely no need for a super artery even if underground. ATL needs to get people OUT of their cars when they come into the city. In the 3 lane each direction portion have the far right lanes for streetcars only with stops every few blocks. That middle lane out of the 3 will now be for parking and the most inner lanes for traffic. As the street approachs MAJOR intersections the parking in the middle lane would stop and be for thru traffic while the inner lane would now become a left turn lane. For smaller intersections there would just be no left turns and those streets could only turn right. This would slow traffic and make it somewhat of a nightmare to drive on right? PERFECT, now that corridor can focus on more denser apt/condo development and making the area more walkable and transit friendly. The denser the area the more you'll be able to do right outside of your door without driving. And if for some reason you had to go to another side of Peachtree it will me much easier to hop on the street car and ride a couple of minutes than to drive and be stuck in traffic and have to find a parking space. The same for the downtown to midtown portion; the far right lane for streetcars only and 1 lane for traffic. Only left turns at major intersections and only right turns else where. This again will lead to denser development and more businesses you can just walk to versus getting in your car. This will actually lead to more people that don't live in the cooridor to either 1) take transit, which is what is wanted or 2) take other streets (esp. in Midtown and downtown) rather than jumping on Peachtree. There no way someone would say "I'm going to ride from Lenox to downtown along Peachtree on a one lane street. They'll either go to shops they can walk to, take the MARTA heavy rail, or take the streetcar which wouldn't be blocked by traffic and have priority through the stop lights. This could ultimately be a concept for other major Atlanta and ITP streets which will make the OTP burbs do a couple of things: either stay in the burbs and not enjoy all that ATL offers or ask for transit to have an alternative to get into the city. I think making it so bad to drive on the main streets will force people to support an alternative other than driving and support dense, walkable development without actually saying "you NEED transit." They'll be saying "WE need transit."
This isn't a complete 180 from complete streets at all.
The fast-moving cars will be underground. This is by far the safest and most pedestrian-friendly approach. With through traffic moving underground at 45-50mph, you can feasibly impose a speed limit of 25-30mph for surface traffic.
If you are going to put something underground, might as well make it an LRT, HRT if possible.
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