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Many of us realize colleges are much more than this.
There is the quality level of research coming out of the colleges, innovations, patents (professors aren't just teachers of a bunch of 17-22 year olds), graduate schools are often considered for a larger standard of quality, and on top of all that we can still consider the quality of those worthless 17-22 years after college.
Yea it is all stuff you can rank and yes there is also some subjectiveness to the methodology.
And yes... that college in Singapore really is much better than Clemson.... It is the top universities in one of the top economies in this world.
I say that admitting I would choose to go to Clemson over Singapore, but that has more to do with proximity, culture, and cost and not rankings or how good the school is alone.
However, I wouldn't ignorantly snub my nose at Singapore. One would be doing really good to graduate from that university.
Well I think you are being contentious for no reason. I didn't snub the school, sounds like you are doing the same thing to Clemson anyway. I was just making a joke about rankings in general and how people act like you must go to a top ranked school or it is the end of the world.
I don't see how you can prove that one college is better than the other, unless you go to both schools, and many other people go to both schools, and most if not all say the one school was better than the other. Only way you could take the bias out of it, in my view, and there would probably still be some bias because people have differnent priorities and perceptions.
I don't see what the economy in Singapore has to do with their school. The school could suck regardless of the economy.
I don't see how you are an expert on Singapore's university though. That makes me laugh, actually. It is just an opinion, probably based almost solely on the ranking in a publication.
I think colleges are largely about making money. Sure they do some research but a lot of that reseach is stuff that has no real benefit, it isn't improving society and our lives.
You can learn some stuff in college but people make it more grandiose than it is. I don't know how old you are but I started to see that as I moved into my 30's. I think your learning curve is going to be much greater your first 5 years out of college because they can't teach you what you need to know for your job, outside of the professional schools like MD but that is a lot more school.
I think a lot of these top ranked schools might make their classes more difficult, but in an unnecessary sort of way if the purpose is simply to gain knowledge and be prepared for a career. I think that these colleges are proving the law of diminishing returns, so to speak, in making students jump through some pointless hoops.
I didn't underestimate Singapore's economy but I don't think that college is that much better than Clemson. Doesn't really matter to me, since I'm out of college. If you consider that college is just a bunch of 17-22 year olds, it is kind of absurd to spend a whole lot of time ranking them. They are just taking classes and haven't proven anything yet.
Oh well obviously your expertise in this area from having 4 years of the 13th grade in bumpkinville, SC trumps the knowledge and research methodology of those who translate numbers and stats into rankings.
Oh well obviously your expertise in this area from having 4 years of the 13th grade in bumpkinville, SC trumps the knowledge and research methodology of those who translate numbers and stats into rankings.
Well hopefully one day I will as smart as a MARTA fan in Hotlanta, the intellectual epicenter of the world. I guess because is overpopulated. .
I don't think the fact Clemson is in a rural area is an indicator of the college though. And isn't that far from Greenville County which is the most populated county of the state.
It is also only 2 hours or so from Atlanta.
I bet my engineering degree from Clemson is better than the one you don't have, though.
I have a hard time believing some person who is a superfan of mass transit in some city has a whole lot of knowledge or research background. I associate mass transit with lower income people. I use BMWs myself.
Clemson has a lot of students from Atlanta and most of them go back home to work there after graduation.
I don't want this thread to turn into a Clemson vs X Awesome College thing though, since it is supposed to be about these best of the best of the best quality students enrolling at UGA on historic levels.
Last edited by BHarrison84; 08-13-2013 at 11:06 AM..
Well I think you are being contentious for no reason. I didn't snub the school, sounds like you are doing the same thing to Clemson anyway. I was just making a joke about rankings in general and how people act like you must go to a top ranked school or it is the end of the world.
I don't see how you can prove that one college is better than the other, unless you go to both schools, and many other people go to both schools, and most if not all say the one school was better than the other. Only way you could take the bias out of it, in my view, and there would probably still be some bias because people have differnent priorities and perceptions.
I don't see what the economy in Singapore has to do with their school. The school could suck regardless of the economy.
I don't see how you are an expert on Singapore's university though. That makes me laugh, actually. It is just an opinion, probably based almost solely on the ranking in a publication.
I think colleges are largely about making money. Sure they do some research but a lot of that reseach is stuff that has no real benefit, it isn't improving society and our lives.
You can learn some stuff in college but people make it more grandiose than it is. I don't know how old you are but I started to see that as I moved into my 30's. I think your learning curve is going to be much greater your first 5 years out of college because they can't teach you what you need to know for your job, outside of the professional schools like MD but that is a lot more school.
I think a lot of these top ranked schools might make their classes more difficult, but in an unnecessary sort of way if the purpose is simply to gain knowledge and be prepared for a career. I think that these colleges are proving the law of diminishing returns, so to speak, in making students jump through some pointless hoops.
I'm the one being contentious? You put down one of the best universities in the world and in a way Singapore with that first comment of yours.
I've been there for crying out loud....
I'd stop making yourself look bad and quite frankly seem immature and stop making assumptions about other people and other countries.
And to be quite frank... if you want to question my expertise on Singapore... You're the one that brought it up, not I. I merely defended it. What is your expertise on Singapore?
I'm the one being contentious? You put down one of the best universities in the world and in a way Singapore with that first comment of yours.
I've been there for crying out loud....
I'd stop making yourself look bad and quite frankly seem immature and stop making assumptions about other people and other countries.
And to be quite frank... if you want to question my expertise on Singapore... You're the one that brought it up, not I. I merely defended it. What is your expertise on Singapore?
You are too serious. I just threw out a college at random and I never heard of Singapore University being a prestigious world university. Maybe I am just nationalistic.
I could have picked several others that I never seen listed as awesome super duper prestitious world university. I actually mocked U of Colorado-Boulder being no. 91 on the list, and I actually applied and was accepted there for a graduate engineering program 10 years ago but I didn't go because they wouldn't give me instate tuition for a program only offered there and a few other schools, plus high cost of living in Boulder. I have always heard Boulder was kind of a slacker, pothead kind of college, which I don't care that much about because I like more laid back environments even though I am not a pothead slacker.
I don't care about Singapore. Why should I? I think that I already stated at the beginning of this debate many pages ago that I think all colleges are the same thing and it is more about the major anyway. I talked about hype. You don't agree colleges are overhyped and some of them much more than others. I accept that but I don't have to change my opinion. I don't have to prove it either. At the end of the day, you take these rankings as gospel because there is no legit way to compare the quality of education at each university, and average future incomes has nothing to do with the quality of the education.
You guys are conflating stats on the student body itself with the quality of the colleges. Also, there are even some colleges like UNC that don't even offer engineering so it can't really be ranked about Clemson that offers engineering and all the other undergraduate majors as UNC. Just an opinion though.
I'll try to make this my last post because we probably should just focus on UGA. I knew that if I brought up Clemson it would spiral out of control b/c you guys make everything into this competition yet some of you aren't fans of capitalism. I accidently typed in Clemson by mistake, i was just reffering to as my college at first. I knew that I would be scorned and humbled if I slipped up and mentioned Clemson. But even a poor fool will look upon a prince sometimes. LOL
I don't see how you can prove that one college is better than the other, unless you go to both schools, and many other people go to both schools, and most if not all say the one school was better than the other. Only way you could take the bias out of it, in my view, and there would probably still be some bias because people have differnent priorities and perceptions.
There are some general yardsticks to measure by. A school that brings in a lot of money for research probably has smart profs. High average SATs suggest smart students. High GREs, etc. suggest smart graduate students. Big endowment suggests well funded programs and people liking the school enough to donate. High retention suggests committed and satisfied students.
The one elusive measure is how well are students taught.
Quote:
I think colleges are largely about making money. Sure they do some research but a lot of that reseach is stuff that has no real benefit, it isn't improving society and our lives.
Depends on the school. KSU does some research; GT does a lot. Profs have to publish for their careers and grad students have to do a thesis for their degree. Yeah, the topics can be esoteric and of not much use in the big picture. But sponsored research suggests that someone is willing to pay for it so that stuff likely does have some value. Grant money is what schools like GT want.
Quote:
You can learn some stuff in college but people make it more grandiose than it is. I don't know how old you are but I started to see that as I moved into my 30's. I think your learning curve is going to be much greater your first 5 years out of college because they can't teach you what you need to know for your job, outside of the professional schools like MD but that is a lot more school.
I don't think professional schools teach you what you need to know. MDs get their real training in Residency and Law School doesn't prepare you to practice law in the real world.
Quote:
I think a lot of these top ranked schools might make their classes more difficult, but in an unnecessary sort of way if the purpose is simply to gain knowledge and be prepared for a career. I think that these colleges are proving the law of diminishing returns, so to speak, in making students jump through some pointless hoops.
Whether they know it or not, universities put everyone on the PhD track.
You are too serious. I just threw out a college at random and I never heard of Singapore University being a prestigious world university. Maybe I am just nationalistic.
I could have picked several others that I never seen listed as awesome super duper prestitious world university. I actually mocked U of Colorado-Boulder being no. 91 on the list, and I actually applied and was accepted there for a graduate engineering program 10 years ago but I didn't go because they wouldn't give me instate tuition for a program only offered there and a few other schools, plus high cost of living in Boulder.
I don't care about Singapore. Why should I? I think that I already stated at the beginning of this debate many pages ago that I think all colleges are the same thing and it is more about the major anyway. I talked about hype. You don't agree colleges are overhyped and some of them much more than others. I accept that but I don't have to change my opinion. I don't have to prove it either. At the end of the day, you take these rankings as gospel because there is no legit way to compare the quality of education at each university, and average future incomes has nothing to do with the quality of the education.
Perhaps it would be a good thing to not just throw things around and perhaps speak having a real idea of what you're talking about.
I would think with as big as you talk about your extensive knowledge of higher education that you might put a bit more logic reasoning into your arguments and not mistakenly discount or insult people or places you seem to know nothing about.
Basic logic. You can't compare two places when you know nothing about one of them... but perhaps that is just intellectual hype
Perhaps it would be a good thing to not just throw things around and perhaps speak having a real idea of what you're talking about.
I would think with as big as you talk about your extensive knowledge of higher education that you might put a bit more logic reasoning into your arguments and not mistakenly discount or insult people or places you seem to know nothing about.
Basic logic. You can't compare two places when you know nothing about one of them... but perhaps that is just intellectual hype
Well, how much do you know about Clemson? Have you even been there? You just looked at the rankings, I bet. I would say CLemson is at least as good as UGA, probably better with an decades old established engineering college. Who knows though. I don't see why it matters in the long run cuz I can't go back to college at this point, I am only 5 years from 40 and it wouldn't be worth the investment. I could be dead at 45 for all I know. LOL
I never claimed to be a source authority on "higher education" and I explained I just threw out one of the colleges I never heard of and I made this thing called a "joke". I don't think that I am anti-Singapore in that I never thought much about it, if at all. LOL I don't think that much about most other countries though. I am pretty nationalistic I guess, I should try to be more worldly. I think Oxford would be the only college overseas that I could name, maybe a few others if I cared enough to extract it from the far corners of my memory.
I didn't insult anybody, that is your false inference based on nothing I said or implied. I have no control over your incorrect inferences though.
There are some general yardsticks to measure by. A school that brings in a lot of money for research probably has smart profs. High average SATs suggest smart students. High GREs, etc. suggest smart graduate students. Big endowment suggests well funded programs and people liking the school enough to donate. High retention suggests committed and satisfied students.
The one elusive measure is how well are students taught.
Depends on the school. KSU does some research; GT does a lot. Profs have to publish for their careers and grad students have to do a thesis for their degree. Yeah, the topics can be esoteric and of not much use in the big picture. But sponsored research suggests that someone is willing to pay for it so that stuff likely does have some value. Grant money is what schools like GT want.
I don't think professional schools teach you what you need to know. MDs get their real training in Residency and Law School doesn't prepare you to practice law in the real world.
Whether they know it or not, universities put everyone on the PhD track.
Well you make some good points. I think the student body stats don't really tell you much other than the college is good at recruiting and some of these colleges have a historic prestige factor built in that increases the demand to go there so that the colleges can be ultra selective given the small number of seats. This ultra selectivity means students with better scores and grades, etc, which the college then uses to recruit the next batch of kids and it is just one big feedback cycle that continues forever. I guess that is what is going on at UGA if every year is their historic best class ever.
You are better at debate than most others on here.
Well, how much do you know about Clemson? Have you even been there? You just looked at the rankings, I bet. I would say CLemson is at least as good as UGA, probably better with an decades old established engineering college. Who knows though. I don't see why it matters in the long run cuz I can't go back to college at this point, I am only 5 years from 40 and it wouldn't be worth the investment. I could be dead at 45 for all I know. LOL
I never claimed to be a source authority on "higher education" and I explained I just threw out one of the colleges I never heard of and I made this thing called a "joke". I don't think that I am anti-Singapore in that I never thought much about it, if at all. LOL I don't think that much about most other countries though. I am pretty nationalistic I guess, I should try to be more worldly. I think Oxford would be the only college overseas that I could name, maybe a few others if I cared enough to extract it from the far corners of my memory.
I didn't insult anybody, that is your false inference based on nothing I said or implied. I have no control over your incorrect inferences though.
OK several points....
You seem to be arguing for the sake of arguing and you're evading basic logic reasoning again. Take a deep breathe and take a few moments to think. You need to be careful with those generalizations and assumptions ... That seems to be a common theme in your responses...
-I didn't say anything bad about Clemson. I largely evaded that and focused on Singapore. I even said I would probably go there over going to Singapore.
-I'm defending Singapore at how quickly you snubbed it just because it is far away and you don't know anything about it.
-I have been there... I grew up in the South and it isn't that far away. Ironic, huh? I chose to not go there, but I have a few old friends and acquaintances that did.
Clemson better than UGA? Now you're just dreaming....
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