Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
@atle8r. This thread answers the question "Why no Atlanta-Fulton?" To comprehend the near-impossibility of an Atlanta-Fulton merger, you must understand the four 2nd-tier Georgia cities that DID consolidate: Columbus (1970), Athens (1990), Augusta (1995) and Macon (2012). This fourfold consolidation is unprecedented in any other state. Columbus and Athens consolidated out of a sense of pride and progress: Columbus also wanted to be the state's 2nd largest city and be noticed; similarly, proud Athens wanted to exit GA's 3rd tier and become a 2nd-tier city. The last two, Augusta and Macon, consolidated out of desperate need. Unlike Savannah, which shored up its demography and its tax base after a dramatic population loss (1960-1970), Augusta let its population slide for 35 straight years (1970-95) and Macon did so for even longer. Also, Augusta and Macon were facing insolvency. Both HAD to consolidate with their more prosperous outlying counties or face bankruptcy and further decay. The City of Atlanta is not in that position, and it doesn't give a hoot if it's larger than Jacksonville. Savannah is in sound shape, too, and it doesn't care if it's higher up in the state rankings. Finally, the opposition of black Atlantans and mostly white Fulton Countians to consolidation puts a further nail in the coffin of any Atlanta-Fulton merger. Atlanta and Fulton County both like being separate, and I can't imagine a scenario that will change that.
@aries4118. In case you missed a few episodes, we're talking about Georgia's CITIES here, not its metropolitan areas. GA's largest metros as of 2012 are Atlanta (5.4 million), Augusta (575,000), Savannah (361,000), Columbus (310,000), Macon (232,000) and Athens (192,000). But the largest cities in 2012 are: Atlanta (443,000), Columbus (198,000), Augusta (197,000), Macon (156,000), Savannah (142,000), and Athens (118,000). Excluding nearby incorporated cities like Sandy Springs, which can refuse to be consolidated, Atlanta might have between 700,000 or 800,000 people under an Atlanta-Fulton merger. Savannah could easily have around 230,000 in a Savannah-Chatham merger, excluding nearby incorporated cities like Pooler.
@atle8r. This thread answers the question "Why no Atlanta-Fulton?" To comprehend the near-impossibility of an Atlanta-Fulton merger, you must understand the four 2nd-tier Georgia cities that DID consolidate: Columbus (1970), Athens (1990), Augusta (1995) and Macon (2012). This fourfold consolidation is unprecedented in any other state. Columbus and Athens consolidated out of a sense of pride and progress: Columbus also wanted to be the state's 2nd largest city and be noticed; similarly, proud Athens wanted to exit GA's 3rd tier and become a 2nd-tier city. The last two, Augusta and Macon, consolidated out of desperate need. Unlike Savannah, which shored up its demography and its tax base after a dramatic population loss (1960-1970), Augusta let its population slide for 35 straight years (1970-95) and Macon did so for even longer. Also, Augusta and Macon were facing insolvency. Both HAD to consolidate with their more prosperous outlying counties or face bankruptcy and further decay. The City of Atlanta is not in that position, and it doesn't give a hoot if it's larger than Jacksonville. Savannah is in sound shape, too, and it doesn't care if it's higher up in the state rankings. Finally, the opposition of black Atlantans and mostly white Fulton Countians to consolidation puts a further nail in the coffin of any Atlanta-Fulton merger. Atlanta and Fulton County both like being separate, and I can't imagine a scenario that will change that.
@aries4118. In case you missed a few episodes, we're talking about Georgia's CITIES here, not its metropolitan areas. GA's largest metros as of 2012 are Atlanta (5.4 million), Augusta (575,000), Savannah (361,000), Columbus (310,000), Macon (232,000) and Athens (192,000). But the largest cities in 2012 are: Atlanta (443,000), Columbus (198,000), Augusta (197,000), Macon (156,000), Savannah (142,000), and Athens (118,000). Excluding nearby incorporated cities like Sandy Springs, which can refuse to be consolidated, Atlanta might have between 700,000 or 800,000 people under an Atlanta-Fulton merger. Savannah could easily have around 230,000 in a Savannah-Chatham merger, excluding nearby incorporated cities like Pooler.
MasonBau:
Metro population is what matters.
You can debate city sizes all you--important for irrational pride and shoring up tax bases only.
The point--Metro Augusta is Georgia's second largest city.
And a comment on y'all's "episodes": Everyone is reading them like "WTF?" Pathetic, yet entertaining.
Metro population is what matters.
The point--Metro Augusta is Georgia's second largest city.
The thread is about Atlanta-Fulton consolidation, so Augusta's metro ranking has no bearing at all on the discussion. Why mention it? City rankings (not metro rankings) ARE one driver of consolidation -- as well as city decline, bankruptcy, race relations, local pride, and local resentment.
The thread is about Atlanta-Fulton consolidation, so Augusta's metro ranking has no bearing at all on the discussion. Why mention it? City rankings (not metro rankings) ARE one driver of consolidation -- as well as city decline, bankruptcy, race relations, local pride, and local resentment.
Because y'all mentioned it.
And metro rankings do matter--and in y'all's discussion.
Don't you dare try to play these childish games with me, brother-bear.
@atle8r. This thread answers the question "Why no Atlanta-Fulton?" To comprehend the near-impossibility of an Atlanta-Fulton merger, you must understand the four 2nd-tier Georgia cities that DID consolidate: Columbus (1970), Athens (1990), Augusta (1995) and Macon (2012). This fourfold consolidation is unprecedented in any other state. Columbus and Athens consolidated out of a sense of pride and progress: Columbus also wanted to be the state's 2nd largest city and be noticed; similarly, proud Athens wanted to exit GA's 3rd tier and become a 2nd-tier city. The last two, Augusta and Macon, consolidated out of desperate need. Unlike Savannah, which shored up its demography and its tax base after a dramatic population loss (1960-1970), Augusta let its population slide for 35 straight years (1970-95) and Macon did so for even longer. Also, Augusta and Macon were facing insolvency. Both HAD to consolidate with their more prosperous outlying counties or face bankruptcy and further decay. The City of Atlanta is not in that position, and it doesn't give a hoot if it's larger than Jacksonville. Savannah is in sound shape, too, and it doesn't care if it's higher up in the state rankings. Finally, the opposition of black Atlantans and mostly white Fulton Countians to consolidation puts a further nail in the coffin of any Atlanta-Fulton merger. Atlanta and Fulton County both like being separate, and I can't imagine a scenario that will change that.
I disagree that the history of city/county consolidation in the state is relevant to an Atlanta/Fulton consolidation.
First of all, cities have long brought about growth in their population and tax base through annexation. It is only due the restrictive annexation laws in this state that has forced the major cities to grow through consolidation with the county governments and since Georgia counties are mostly tiny in comparison to most states, this makes sense. You could look at any number of cities that are thriving today that would be struggling if they were restricted to their 1950s boundaries. This is not unique to any city in Georgia nor is the central city decline during that time period which was common throughout the US and especially in the south.
Secondly, if a consolidation was deemed beneficial to Atlanta and Fulton, that would determine whether or not it should be pursued. Looking at the map, it appears that the unincorporated part of Fulton is suburban to rural, has a low population and doesn't offer much in terms of jobs. Based on the 2010 census, a consolidation with unincorporated Fulton would only add around 50,000 to the city population so there would probably would not be much benefit to the city.
And depending on how the referendum was written, the other cities within Fulton would likely only vote on whether or not their city would be a part of the consolidation. In other words Sandy Springs, Roswell etc., would of course choose to remain independent but that would not prohibit a consolidation with unincorporated Fulton county.
@aries. "Brother-bear," eh? Exactly where in Georgia are you from, aries? Yes, metro area populations are more realistic than city populations for sizing up a city, but this thread deals with consolidation. "Second-largest city" is a prestigious title for many cities, and both Augusta (from 1995 until last year) and Columbus (1970-1995, and since last year) have crowed about their status as 2nd largest city in Georgia, post-consolidation. It was seen as a reason to crow, as city rankings are widely published, from encyclopedias to My Weekly Reader.
@j2rescue. I'd agree that Atlanta gains little from consolidation. Proud-as-a-peacock Sandy Springs would never opt for consolidation with Atlanta. A few other municipalities might be convinced to throw in their lot with Atlanta-Fulton, but you know the local waters better than I would. Nonetheless, I can't think of any city-county merger in the country that hasn't had a strong dose of those things I mentioned: shared identity, foolish pride, lack of an organized opposition, core-city insolvency, or core-city decay. Atlanta has no incentive to consolidate. Ditto Savannah.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
