Updated MSA/CSA statistics shows Atlanta getting larger (Sandy Springs, Roswell: neighborhoods, elementary schools)

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by dpatt.marine1

What do you classify it as then? They are apart of the same MSA. I not sure how you classify a situation like that. Now if they both had MSA to form a CSA, it would seem appropriate but in this case it's unique.

They may be but FW is a big city in its own right.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by R1070

Thanks for this. I do think there are a lot more outdoor activities available in the DFW and nearby areas than we get credit for.

For example:

-The large selection of water recreation options (we have many more lakes closer to the city and two of those lakes are larger than Lake Lanier); White Rock Lake offers inner city outdoor recreational options that you would have to drive outside of Atlanta to find.
-Cedar Hill State park (great area for camping, hiking and water recreation in Southern Dallas County
-Great Trinity Forest (Very scenic hike and bike trails as well as the Audubon Center: Trinity River Audubon Center | Audubon)

1.5 hour drive from downtown Dallas:
-Palo Pinto Mountains & Brazos River (I love this area and go camping there from time to time)
-Red River Valley
-Mountains of SE Oklahoma

Those are good points that there are a lot more outdoor activities available in the DFW and surrounding areas than that area gets credit for.

Which kind of illustrates my earlier point of the very-substantial differences between Dallas and Atlanta being a major reason why both cities should not necessarily always be so closely compared to and measured against each other (even though the frequent direct economic competition between the two cities makes it difficult for people to not want to compare the two Sunbelt cities)...

...Because both cities have two almost totally (but not necessarily completely) different sets of geographical, topographical and recreational assets.

Dallas' geographical, topographical and recreational assets are as a result of the city's location on the Southern Plains.

Atlanta's geographical, topographical and recreational assets are as a result of the city's location at the very-southern end of the Blue Ridge and Southern Appalachian Mountains on the Southern Piedmont Plateau.

The fact that Dallas' physical assets of largely flat and largely sparcely-wooded terrain are basically Southern Plains assets and that Atlanta's physical assets of very-heavily wooded rolling to hilly to mountainous terrain are basically Southern Appalachian and Southern Piedmont assets means that a direct comparison and measurement between the two is somewhat nonsensical...

...Though people still attempt to directly compare and measure the physical assets of the two cities against each other even though they are so vastly-different in many respects.

The vast differences in the topography and terrain of the two cities is a major reason why Atlanta's development sprawls and spreads out over a larger area than Dallas, despite both cities being large automobile-dependent Sunbelt metro areas.

[Saintmarks]

Born to Roll, you hit it on the head again. Topography is the biggest difference in the two. That is what I miss the most about Georgia. Funny thing, if Dallas had sprung up about 90 miles to the east, it would be much more similar. The area around Tyler Texas looks very much like the Piedmont of Georgia, down to the abundance of pine, sweetgum, dogwood and azalea.

You can be in some decent sized mountains in far eastern Oklahoma (the western edge of Arkansas' Ouachita Mountains) in 3 hours or so. Nothing like the Blue Ridge of northern Georgia though. You can be to the beach at Galveston in about the same time it would take to drive from Atlanta to the FL panhandle or Tybee Island, but again, no comparison. In fact much more disappointing than the aforementioned mountain comparison. South Padre Island is very nice, but Texas is so big, the time it takes you to get there from Dallas, you could be in Destin.

The Texas Hill Country has a unique beauty all its own. Big Bend is a full days drive. Other than that, the topography is not that exciting. Hands down win for Atlanta on this regard.

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by Mutiny77

It's the second-largest primary city in the MSA; it's definitely not a suburb. They used to be separate metro areas back in the day and the area was once a CSA. The Metroplex is essentially two central cities whose metro areas grew together.

Actually, the term used back then was CMSA (Consolidated Metropolitan Statistical Area), which were composed of PMSAs (Primary Metropolitan Statistical Areas). The CMSA and PMSA terminology was eliminated with the 2003 redefinitions.

Note that one major difference with the old CMSA and the current CSA is that the combined area was required to have a total population of at least 1 million in order to be classified as a CMSA; there is no such requirement for a CSA.

In 2003, some areas that were once separate PMSAs in a CMSA were combined into a single MSA. Two major such examples are Dallas and Fort Worth, as well as Los Angeles and Orange County. An extreme example is South Florida, where Miami and Fort Lauderdale were separate PMSAs prior to 2003, while West Palm Beach was a separate MSA altogether. Both the Miami and Fort Lauderdale PMSAs along with the West Palm Beach MSA were merged in 2003 to create one large MSA.

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

Actually, the term used back then was CMSA (Consolidated Metropolitan Statistical Area), which were composed of PMSAs (Primary Metropolitan Statistical Areas). The CMSA and PMSA terminology was eliminated with the 2003 redefinitions.

Note that one major difference with the old CMSA and the current CSA is that the combined area was required to have a total population of at least 1 million in order to be classified as a CMSA; there is no such requirement for a CSA.

In 2003, some areas that were once separate PMSAs in a CMSA were combined into a single MSA. Two major such examples are Dallas and Fort Worth, as well as Los Angeles and Orange County. An extreme example is South Florida, where Miami and Fort Lauderdale were separate PMSAs prior to 2003, while West Palm Beach was a separate MSA altogether. Both the Miami and Fort Lauderdale PMSAs along with the West Palm Beach MSA were merged in 2003 to create one large MSA.

Yes, the MSA and CSA designations replaced the pre-2003 designations. I didn't feel like going through all of the history and just wanted to point out that Fort Worth and Dallas used to be separate metropolitan areas at one point before being combined into a larger one.

[therealpattman]

Originally Posted by Mutiny77

Yes, the MSA and CSA designations replaced the pre-2003 designations. I didn't feel like going through all of the history and just wanted to point out that Fort Worth and Dallas used to be separate metropolitan areas at one point before being combined into a larger one.

I was always under the impression that a MSA contained a core city and included it's surrounding suburbs and any counties that had a certain commuter ratio.

Metropolitan and Micropolitan Statistical Areas Main - People and Households - U.S. Census Bureau

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by dpatt.marine1

I was always under the impression that a MSA contained a core city and included it's surrounding suburbs and any counties that had a certain commuter ratio.

Metropolitan and Micropolitan Statistical Areas Main - People and Households - U.S. Census Bureau

As far as I know, that's historically been the basic standard for any statistically-defined metropolitan area by the OMB.

[R1070]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

Born to Roll, you hit it on the head again. Topography is the biggest difference in the two. That is what I miss the most about Georgia. Funny thing, if Dallas had sprung up about 90 miles to the east, it would be much more similar. The area around Tyler Texas looks very much like the Piedmont of Georgia, down to the abundance of pine, sweetgum, dogwood and azalea.

You can be in some decent sized mountains in far eastern Oklahoma (the western edge of Arkansas' Ouachita Mountains) in 3 hours or so. Nothing like the Blue Ridge of northern Georgia though. You can be to the beach at Galveston in about the same time it would take to drive from Atlanta to the FL panhandle or Tybee Island, but again, no comparison. In fact much more disappointing than the aforementioned mountain comparison. South Padre Island is very nice, but Texas is so big, the time it takes you to get there from Dallas, you could be in Destin.

The Texas Hill Country has a unique beauty all its own. Big Bend is a full days drive. Other than that, the topography is not that exciting. Hands down win for Atlanta on this regard.

Don't disregard the Palo Pinto/Brazos area to the west of Fort Worth. A beautiful area, very western looking. This is the North Texas version of the hill country.

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by R1070

Don't disregard the Palo Pinto/Brazos area to the west of Fort Worth. A beautiful area, very western looking. This is the North Texas version of the hill country.

Definitely. Was lumping it in mentally with the main Hill Country. Most outside the region won't know the difference.

[chiatldal]

Originally Posted by dpatt.marine1

What do you classify it as then? They are apart of the same MSA. I not sure how you classify a situation like that. Now if they both had MSA to form a CSA, it would seem appropriate but in this case it's unique.

Another city, Some metros are multi core by having more than one Major city.... they are refer to a Metroplex, Conurbation or twin cities.

San Francisco - Oakland
Tampa - St petersburg
Minneapolis - Saint Paul
Dallas - Fort Worth

This means two cities grew into each other and overlapped to the point they share the same suburbs and region. but still have two distinct identities as cities. Fort Worth has it own urban core, and amenities as a major city.