Removing Freedom Parkway (Boston: bankrupt, property taxes, cost)

[netdragon]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Little 5 is not dependent on freedom parkway. They would see a boost from having more customers living near by in the space that was freedom parkway.

You under-estimate the importance of catering businesses.

We on occasion do a $300 order from an Indian place in L5P. That's a big bonus for a particular day. We're one floor of one office building in downtown. Do the math. :-)

The high turnover you see in L5P are typically places that don't take advantage of catering business.

The Vortex doesn't need to do catering, because people go to it. Not every place is like that.


In fact, I'll give you a clue how important catering is... Our business downtown sometimes orders lunch from Jim N Nicks in Smyrna, pretty close to my house. (Strangely, I'm not the one doing the order, I'm not a big fan of barbeque and it's actually an ITPer typically ordering from Jim N Nicks, go figure) Jim N Nicks will drive from Smyrna to downtown Atlanta to deliver us $300 worth of food. Jim N Nicks in Smyrna is typically full and has no issues. Yet it will make the trip because catering is lucrative.

Almost every place I've ordered from in L5P that has been around for a while has a catering menu... So, I highly doubt they aren't doing catering business.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by netdragon

You under-estimate the importance of catering businesses.

You over-estimate the importance of freeways. Catering businesses will not close because they have to go through an extra couple stop lights on the way to 75/85.

Our metro's third largest employer (Emory) is thriving great without any freeway access.

[Pemgin]

Dude, nobody locates in Little Five Points to cater, nor do they need to to be successful. Not only is there a critical mass of locals to support the businesses there, it's chock full of suburbanites and people from out of state almost every night. What high turnover are you talking about? Almost all of the places there have been there for years.

[magnetar]

I think the larger point is that Freedom Parkway is one of the few streets inside the city that's kind of nice to drive on (or at least, not excruciatingly stressful to drive on), it includes pedestrian trails (which are near sacred in Atlanta right now) and it provides much-needed east-west connectivity near downtown so I don't really see it going anywhere.

[Born 2 Roll]

I agree with many other posters that I can't see Freedom Parkway being closed or decommissioned as a roadway anytime soon.

Though, over the long-term, I could possibly see the current roadway being relocated underground into a tunnel and the surface right-of-way being converted into an automobile-free linear park/greenbelt, particularly if the Downtown Connector is ever tunneled as has been discussed in the past.

[AnsleyPark]

I simply cannot imagine that anyone would spend the billions of dollars to tunnel any road here. Capping the connector? Perhaps portions of it. But, if we are going to spend billions, I believe it should be spent on mass transit and projects including the Beltline.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

I simply cannot imagine that anyone would spend the billions of dollars to tunnel any road here. Capping the connector? Perhaps portions of it. But, if we are going to spend billions, I believe it should be spent on mass transit and projects including the Beltline.

If the Freedom Parkway roadway were to be tunneled underground and replaced with additional greenspace, it would likely be apart of a much-larger project to tunnel the Downtown Connector, which is a project that could be self-funded with a robust combination of revenues from private real estate investment and Value Capture taxes (profits and revenue from property taxes on the new high-density Transit-Oriented Development that would go up along the right-of-way that the road now occupies on the surface) and user fees (tolls on the newly-tunneled roadway).

The fact that any Downtown Connector/Freedom Parkway tunneling project would be totally self-funded with private real estate investment revenues, Value Capture taxes and user fees means that we would not be paying for anything out of existing sources of transportation funding.

Besides, there's no way on God's green earth that we could ever even attempt to pay for such projects out of existing sources of transportation funding which are nearing total depletion.

From this point on it is absolutely essential that major transportation infrastructure projects like improving, upgrading and expanding mass transit and tunneling existing surface roadways be funded with private investment and user fees.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

I simply cannot imagine that anyone would spend the billions of dollars to tunnel any road here. Capping the connector? Perhaps portions of it. But, if we are going to spend billions, I believe it should be spent on mass transit and projects including the Beltline.

I'm with Ansley, spend the money on transit.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by cqholt

I'm with Ansley, spend the money on transit.

But with any Downtown Connector/Freedom Parkway tunneling project being self-funded with its own revenue streams from new real estate development in and along the surface path of a newly-tunneled Downtown Connector, Value Capture taxing districts targeted to the corridor of the tunneling project and user fees (tolls) on the tunneled roadways, spending on tunneling the Downtown Connector and Freedom Parkway roadways would not affect spending on transit.

A Downtown Connector/Freedom Parkway tunneling project would be a transportation infrastructure/real estate redevelopment project that would not take away from any future spending on improving, upgrading and expanding transit which would also have its own revenue streams that would be completely separate from a Downtown Connector/Freedom Parkway tunneling project.

The money to tunnel the Downtown Connector and Freedom Parkway roadways would NOT come from the same pot of cash that the money for improving, upgrading and expanding transit would come from.

Tunneling the Downtown Connector/Freedom Parkway roadways and improving, upgrading and expanding transit would each be paid for with two totally-different sources..,

...Which means that transit upgrades and expansions can still be fully-funded if the Downtown Connector and Freedom Parkway are tunneled.

Tunneled Downtown Connector/Freedom Parkway = paid for with revenues from new high-density transit-oriented real estate development in the existing surface right-of-way of the Downtown Connector after it is tunneled and revenues from tolls on the tunneled roadways.

Transit improvements, upgrades and expansions = paid for with revenues from large-scale high-density transit-oriented real estate development and targeted Value Capture taxing districts along transit lines and revenues from a distance-based fare structure and the aggressive sale of major corporate and individual sponsorships.

Tunneling the Downtown Connector and Freedom Parkway roadways won't take any money away from transit....And improving, upgrading and expanding transit will not take any money away from tunneling the Downtown Connector and Freedom Parkway roadways.

[netdragon]

Originally Posted by Pemgin

Dude, nobody locates in Little Five Points to cater, nor do they need to to be successful. Not only is there a critical mass of locals to support the businesses there, it's chock full of suburbanites and people from out of state almost every night. What high turnover are you talking about? Almost all of the places there have been there for years.

Interesting, I wonder why they don't tell me no when I call them to cater (vortex would say "no" ). In fact, most places went out of their way to accommodate us. If they didn't need the catering, it'd be simple: They'd say "no". Like the Vortex.

Originally Posted by Pemgin

Almost all of the places there have been there for years.

I've been going to L5P for lunch on occasion since 2005 and the turnover is pretty high, except for a handful that seem invincible. eg, OMG Taco closed down in 2013, and before that there was a greens cafe type place that closed down in the same exact spot. Right at the corner of Colquitt. I can't remember the names of most of the places, but some:
* Stir it Up (Moved to midtown?)
* Corner Tavern
* Arden's Garden (yes, I know, a chain, but still)
* Bay Leaves
* The Five Spot (never went there)
* La Fonda Latina
* Yoreka
* Grandma Luke's Bakery and Cafe
* OMG Taco (already mentioned)
* on and on