Morehouse Tuition (Atlanta: 2014, top school, university)

[EdwardA]

Originally Posted by ElleKaye

OK, even though I admittedly haven't read the article thoroughly enough to get into a debate about what was stated, I did see at least from the title that it only compared a list of 12 of Georgia's top schools. Morehouse is on what I infer the writer considered one of the top 12 and that's not exactly a kick in the teeth for the school. It doesn't however mean that Morehouse's college entrance exam scores are "at or below the bottom 25% at other GA schools". It means as compared to the other 11 schools. Again, I'm not arguing that. I know that they allow lower scores than might be considered the norm for a private school, not because someone wrote it, but because I know it to be so. That's not the same thing as saying their scores are in the bottom 25% of GA schools. I'm simply saying the entrance process is not highly selective.

I see your point, I should have worded it differently. The real issue is that there aren't enough college ready Blacks to sustain many HBCUs. It's estimated that only 15% of Black HS seniors are college ready as measured by the SAT. This Year's SAT Scores Are Out, and They're Grim - Julia Ryan - The Atlantic

The Black students that are college ready are aggressively recruited by non-HBCUs to meet diversity goals. In these hypersensitive times no school wants to appear in a stupid media post bemoaning the lack of Blacks at a flagship school. So HBCUs are forced to deeper into pool of Black students. Their SAT scores are lower as is their ability to pay. HBCUs and colleges in general are being held responsible for what is happening outside their doors before these kids ever get to college.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by EdwardA

I see your point, I should have worded it differently. The real issue is that there aren't enough college ready Blacks to sustain many HBCUs. It's estimated that only 15% of Black HS seniors are college ready as measured by the SAT. This Year's SAT Scores Are Out, and They're Grim - Julia Ryan - The Atlantic

The Black students that are college ready are aggressively recruited by non-HBCUs to meet diversity goals. In these hypersensitive times no school wants to appear in a stupid media post bemoaning the lack of Blacks at a flagship school. So HBCUs are forced to deeper into pool of Black students. Their SAT scores are lower as is their ability to pay. HBCUs and colleges in general are being held responsible for what is happening outside their doors before these kids ever get to college.

One of the things I think needs to happen is for HBCUs to work to diversify by focusing on attracting local non-black students. This will help stabilize many of the schools--and it would be good for our society as a whole.


Some are already doing this--and well.

[Mishap]

Originally Posted by aries4118

Exactly. I don't know why so many people make a huge deal about loan repayment. There are so many different repayment options out there. I see loan repayment as a small "life tax"...if you're smart about it.

They key is to not default or fall behind...and negotiate a payment plan that does not impede your life too much. What seems to matter is that you are paying them something.


On the other hand...

Credit card debt--try to get rid of that as soon as possible!

Student loan debt is inescapable in bankruptcy. IBR and other plans just increase the total amount paid further into the future and any forgiveness is taxable so waiting out the clock isn't exactly a great way either. If your degree puts you into indentured servitude until you're almost 50, something isn't quite right. I would never advocate taking on enough loans to need IBR for any undergrad (Harvard et al included).

Loans get into the way of life. The longer you have them, the more they interfere. As a 22yr old fresh grad, you should be socking away money into your 401k, saving up for life, and enjoying yourself.

Morehouse and any school worth its salt should be looking long and hard at how their alumni do post-graduation. Telling them the school will make their dreams come true and that they should attend at all cost while having a quarter of those w/ loans go into default isn't sustainable or moral. Whether they need to offer more scholarships or figure out better cost controls to keep tuition low, having kids leverage up for untenable debt at the start of their career with the expectation the gov't will forgive it a few years shy of qualifying for senior discounts at stores is insane. The school has a good rep...lean on all those wealthy alumni to help build on its endowment and improve finaid options.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by Mishap

Student loan debt is inescapable in bankruptcy. IBR and other plans just increase the total amount paid further into the future and any forgiveness is taxable so waiting out the clock isn't exactly a great way either. If your degree puts you into indentured servitude until you're almost 50, something isn't quite right. I would never advocate taking on enough loans to need IBR for any undergrad (Harvard et al included).

Loans get into the way of life. The longer you have them, the more they interfere. As a 22yr old fresh grad, you should be socking away money into your 401k, saving up for life, and enjoying yourself.

Morehouse and any school worth its salt should be looking long and hard at how their alumni do post-graduation. Telling them the school will make their dreams come true and that they should attend at all cost while having a quarter of those w/ loans go into default isn't sustainable or moral. Whether they need to offer more scholarships or figure out better cost controls to keep tuition low, having kids leverage up for untenable debt at the start of their career with the expectation the gov't will forgive it a few years shy of qualifying for senior discounts at stores is insane. The school has a good rep...lean on all those wealthy alumni to help build on its endowment and improve finaid options.

That's why I said, "negotiate a plan that does not impede your life too much."

But--I do agree there's a point of going overboard with student loan debt. I think you are talking about the extreme cases since you mentioned "indentured servitude until you're almost 50..."

[brownhornet]

Originally Posted by aries4118

One of the things I think needs to happen is for HBCUs to work to diversify by focusing on attracting local non-black students. This will help stabilize many of the schools--and it would be good for our society as a whole.


Some are already doing this--and well.

So your idea is that, schools that were started as a mission to educate African Americans that couldnt go elsewhere...and many of which still arent accepted by universities, should work to lose their identity by becoming non HBCU's? I think some don't understand what the whole mission of HBCU's is to begin with. Anyone that wants to apply to HBCU's can, and they're not going to be turned away simply because they're not black. Non blacks dont apply because they DON'T want to.

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by Mishap

Loans get into the way of life. The longer you have them, the more they interfere. As a 22yr old fresh grad, you should be socking away money into your 401k, saving up for life, and enjoying yourself.

Meh, your 20s are basically throw away years in terms of saving for the future. Really, when someone leaves college, they should be about avoiding mistakes and setting themselves up for the future properly. There is plenty of time left to save for retirement...so long as one doesn't bank on "retiring early". Unless you come from a rich family, you can forget about that.

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by EdwardA

I see your point, I should have worded it differently. The real issue is that there aren't enough college ready Blacks to sustain many HBCUs. It's estimated that only 15% of Black HS seniors are college ready as measured by the SAT. This Year's SAT Scores Are Out, and They're Grim - Julia Ryan - The Atlantic

This is exactly why HBCUs are still relevant. They, and this includes Morehouse, know that the majority of Black students came from a school systems that did not set them up to have a successful post-secondary education. Part of their mission is to rapidly change their mind set about learning and get them on to the path of success.

Besides, Morehouse is not hurting for candidates. At all.

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by waronxmas

Besides, Morehouse is not hurting for candidates. At all.

That isn't true.

They did have about 2900 applicants. Of those 2900, they admitted 1900+. Of those 1900, only 557 of those actually chose to enroll. Not exactly a great yield.

Also, of those 557, 49% had Math SAT scores lower than 500. 57% had Writing scores lower than 500. 45% had reading scores lower than 500.

That isn't selective and pretty indicative of the problems Morehouse has attracting good students.

Heck, of those that step on campus, only 54% will graduate within 6 years. That is a horrific ratio.

They like to talk about all of the successful alumni that they have, but the numbers don't indicate this. The average mid-career salary for a Morehouse grad is $65,000. That is an awful ROI for a $30,000 a year education.

Someone previously cited some high cost private schools like Duke, Emory and Harvard, but they have average mid-career earnings of:

Harvard: $119,000
Duke: $102,000
Emory: $85,000 <--- not great, but much better than $65,000

Compare Morehouse's numbers to some public schools in Georgia:

Georgia Tech: $108,000
UGA: $79,400
Georgia State: $71,400
Georgia College and State University: $68,900
West Georgia: $68,200
Georgia Southern: $65,000

The numbers indicate the average student at many of these 'average' schools does better than the average Morehouse man. Not only that, but they spend a fraction of the cost on their education, hence a much, much better ROI. You'd think with all of those successful Morehouse Man Alumni they talk about, they would be doing better in life. Heck, if they mold such great leaders, why don't they perform successfully in a work environment?

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by brownhornet

So your idea is that, schools that were started as a mission to educate African Americans that couldnt go elsewhere...and many of which still arent accepted by universities, should work to lose their identity by becoming non HBCU's? I think some don't understand what the whole mission of HBCU's is to begin with. Anyone that wants to apply to HBCU's can, and they're not going to be turned away simply because they're not black. Non blacks dont apply because they DON'T want to.

No--I am not saying that at all. They should not lose their identity.


And, you're right...that was their original mission. Which is why they are known as Historically Black Colleges and Universities.

I imagine most of them trying to expand their mission--it is critical for their survival. Expanding their mission does not mean they will underserve black students. This is a "both-and" situation, not "either-or."


It would be great if most HBCUs became 10-40% non-black. Great for their survival and great for society.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by waronxmas

Meh, your 20s are basically throw away years in terms of saving for the future. Really, when someone leaves college, they should be about avoiding mistakes and setting themselves up for the future properly. There is plenty of time left to save for retirement...so long as one doesn't bank on "retiring early". Unless you come from a rich family, you can forget about that.

Well said.