Language etiquette for kids, use of sir and m'am (Atlanta: house, school)

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by Mattie

We moved from the northeast with one child in middle school, and the other just starting high school. As has been said, they picked up the sir and ma'am very quickly. Teachers and coaches seem to expect it.

I don't however, think using Mr or Mrs Last Name is any less polite, in fact, I find it a little more personal.

Yes; this. My mother would have tanned our hides if we had addressed one of her contemporaries by their first name.

[Group Hug]

My kids always use Mr. and Miss/Mrs plus last name. Here, the use of sir and m'am is of very limited use and is quite formal. It is never used with people who are already aquainted. It would not be used by a student to a teacher, and would actually be seen as insolent, oddly enough. Around here, if I hear it at all, it is from salespeople. But if I frequent a store, I would no longer be called "m'am" because they know me. "Sir/m'am" creates a social distance where I live.

I've been making the calls all this week to set up our utilities and have been called m'am more times in that process than I have in the previous two years! I'll give my kids the "sir" and "m'am" tutorial sometime this week. And maybe one for my husband, too.

Every area has its ways of showing politeness. If you go shopping in France, for example, you'd better make sure to say good morning/good afternoon to the person working at a store before politely asking him or her for help.

[CMMom]

I also find that sometimes we call people by Mr. or Miss their first name ("Mr. Mark and Miss Cindy are coming for supper tonight"). I think that's a Southern thing too.

[ElleKaye]

Originally Posted by Pinkmani

It depends on the person. I had a teacher flip out on you if you didn't say, "Yes, ma'am" or "No, ma'am". This was hard for me because I had just moved to ATL from NY and I was always taught that "ma'am" is an insult to a woman (her age). I was told to use "miss"...

I was raised to use Yes/No Sir and M'am, but I get your point about the age being an issue. When I was 22, I definitely would not use the terms for someone else who was 22 but maybe someone who I thought was over 50 - hence the age perception thing that can be offensive. The first person who said yes m'am to me was an 18 year old gardener and I was thinking "say what?!?", do I look that old?

The sir/m'am thing is more an acknowledgement of age difference than respect to me and I'm from the deep south. I am still very polite complete with all the thank-you's and pleases. I think children should use the m'am/sir, and as an adult, I still do if I think someone is a good 30 years older than I am.

It's a judgment call, but being polite in general goes a lot further than the actual terms used.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by Group Hug

My kids always use Mr. and Miss/Mrs plus last name. Here, the use of sir and m'am is of very limited use and is quite formal. It is never used with people who are already aquainted. It would not be used by a student to a teacher, and would actually be seen as insolent, oddly enough. Around here, if I hear it at all, it is from salespeople. But if I frequent a store, I would no longer be called "m'am" because they know me. "Sir/m'am" creates a social distance where I live.

For me it depends on the circumstances.

If my kids know someone well, I don't expect them to say sir or ma'am on every occasion, or to use the Eddie Haskell form ("That's a lovely dress you're wearing, Mrs. Cleaver"). Once you get to know someone, then of course your relationship forms its own rules and customs.

But if it's the lady down the street that they barely know or a new school teacher, I'd expect them to be more formal.

Even as an adult I follow basically the same protocol. If I'm dealing with someone I haven't met before or if the situation implies a degree of formality, then I'll tend toward Mr. or Ms. or sir and ma'am. For instance, if I'm running a meeting and need to recognize someone from the floor, I'll say, "Could you please state your name, sir?" or "Thank you for your comments, Ms. Jones."

If I'm at a business meeting and am introduced to someone older than me -- an increasingly rare circumstance -- I'll say, "Nice to meet you, Mrs. Warbucks." I'll leave it to her to decide whether a more informal tone is appropriate.

I'd probably do the same with someone my age or younger if they are in a position of authority. "A pleasure to meet you, Senator" instead of "How ya doing, Roscoe?"

I'd always rather err on the side of giving someone deference and formal courtesy, especially at the outset. Once we get to know each other, then we'll know the right way to act.


Now as to offering your seat or removing your hat, those are non-negotiable.

[LovelySummer]

CMMom,

Can you make a recommendation for wording to refer to a woman other than "ma'am." I don't like that word (it sounds very country to me and I know it's an old english word). I'm fine with "sir" because that feels more like a universally accepted standard english word but I really don't want to teach my son to call someone "ma'am." Is "miss" also seen as polite? Are there other alternatives for women in the south (when the child does not know the person's first or last name)?

Originally Posted by CMMom

I wouldn't say that every child does it by any means, but it is considered polite by most people here. It certainly couldn't hurt.

[LovelySummer]

It is. My friends always called my mom Ms. Last name. That was how we did it up north.

Originally Posted by CMMom

I also find that sometimes we call people by Mr. or Miss their first name ("Mr. Mark and Miss Cindy are coming for supper tonight"). I think that's a Southern thing too.

[LovelySummer]

Why would that be rude? I just let people know they don't have to call me "ma'am" (just like someone saying "call me Firstname") and go from there. Nothing rude about it. Everybody has the right to be called whatever they want to be called. If I call you Ms./Mr. Tryska and you say "call me Tryska," so be it. Not rude at all.

Personally, I am taken aback because I don't like thinking that I'm old in the eyes of the person talking to me. I'd prefer to think I'm as young as I once was. LOL. Up north, you use "sir," etc. for old people. Just the way it goes and I still have the reaction. Don't call me what you'd call my grandmother. I'm not that old.

Originally Posted by Tryska

They should naturally pick it up once they move here. They may be referred to as sir and ma'am themselves. The bigger issue I think is people who move to the South and are taken aback by being called sir and ma'am. (To me that's actually ruder. lol)

[CMMom]

I don't really think there is a good alternative to "ma'am," which is short for "madam." The only thing I can think of is a little child with a British/Cockney accent calling a lady "missus" (a la Oliver Twist).

My kids do call a number of our close friends by "Mr. or Miss first name." It's a way of being more informal than "Mrs. Smith," but not just allowing them to call them by their first names alone. I would never encourage this unless we know the people well and know that they are OK with it (and probably not with elderly folks).

[arjay57]

Wasn't it Gloria Steinem who suggested Ms as an alternative to the Miss/Mrs. issue?

I know folks may have different opinions on ma'am but personally I've never thought it implied "old." If somebody told me they found the term insulting I certainly wouldn't use it -- the intent is to show respect.