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During a recent meeting, the Forsyth County commission voted 5-0 to authorize Moreland Altobelli, Inc. of Cumming to handle the preliminary and final engineering plans for the proposed McGinnis Ferry interchange. It will be built between the existing Exits 11 and 12.
From the article in the link provided by Airforceguy:
Quote:
SOUTH FORSYTH — Traffic on Ga. 400 in northern Fulton and southern Forsyth counties likely will get worse before it improves, though officials say a new exit will ultimately ease congestion.
With the amount of development that is taking place in that area, a new exit on GA 400 between Windward and McFarland parkways will likely do nothing but generate more new development which in turn will generate even more traffic along that stretch of GA 400.
New exit on GA 400 = More development = More traffic, not less.
The land speculators and real estate developers will be swarming all over that new exit years before it opens.
Heck, they're probably preparing to swarm all over that new exit right now.
Yeah, and I believe the McGinnis Ferry exit on I-85 is already approved and about to happen.
Bit of a shame considering how much better traffic has gotten on McGinnis Ferry after the bridge over the river was finally expanded. I guess it's going to clog up again when it has access to both 400 and 85.
But artificially holding back development by refusing to improve transportation infrastructure isn't a valid option.
Yeah, and I believe the McGinnis Ferry exit on I-85 is already approved and about to happen.
Bit of a shame considering how much better traffic has gotten on McGinnis Ferry after the bridge over the river was finally expanded. I guess it's going to clog up again when it has access to both 400 and 85.
But artificially holding back development by refusing to improve transportation infrastructure isn't a valid option.
Those are some excellent points about McGinnis Ferry Road.
But knowing the land speculation and development types in that area (North Fulton/South Forsyth counties) all too well, this new exit isn't about improving transportation infrastructure but is about opening up the GA 400/McGinnis Ferry Road junction to lots of new traffic-generating development.
Somebody important probably owns some land in that area wants to increase the value of that land by building a new interchange at GA 400 and McGinnis Ferry Road.
Heck, the development and construction of the entire Georgia 400 roadway between Buckhead and Lumpkin County was not about improving transportation infrastructure as the area that is now known as the GA 400 corridor was overwhelmingly rural and very sparsely developed when GA 400 was first planned back in the 1950's.
The development and construction of the entire Georgia 400 roadway between Buckhead and Lumpkin County was about opening up the sparsely populated rural area north of Atlanta to massive amounts of suburban development.
This new interchange is just keeping with that pattern of using new road construction to increase the value of real estate holdings along the GA 400 corridor.
Besides, seeing as though the GA 400 roadway is essentially built-out (meaning that the GA 400 roadway is the widest that it is going to be between the I-85/GA 400 junction in Buckhead and the McFarland Road exit), if the powers-that-be really truly wanted to improve transportation infrastructure along the GA 400 corridor at this point, they would be pushing for the construction of an extension of the MARTA Red Line...
...Which they are pushing for the construction of the MARTA Red Line up to at least the Windward Parkway exit.
Heck, as has been discussed before on these boards, there are even some real estate interests up that way that are pushing for a state takeover of MARTA as a means of getting rail transit extended BEYOND Windward Parkway....But that's not necessarily to improve transportation infrastructure anywhere near as much as it is to increase the value of some prime commercial real estate holdings along the GA 400 corridor between North Springs and Dawsonville (the site of the North Georgia Premium Outlets Mall and surrounding retail and commercial development).
Those guys up there (land speculators and real estate developers in North Fulton and Forsyth counties), when they think about transportation infrastructure construction, they don't think about easing traffic congestion or improving transportation infrastructure. First and foremost they think about increasing the amount of money that they can make off of new real estate development. Everything else is a distant second....This is a thought process that developers have had about the area north of Atlanta for about 60-plus years now.
...An area north of Atlanta which the land speculation and real estate development community has always seen as one big pot of gold since the 1950's because of the presence of the lakes (Lanier and Allatoona) and the foothills of the Blue Ridge and Southern Appalachian Mountains....Hence the nickname of "The Golden Crescent" for the affluent Northside suburban area between lakes Lanier and Allatoona.
Heck, in decades past these developers wanted the construction of a new airport on land that the City of Atlanta owns up in Dawson County...
(...The City of Atlanta specifically bought that Dawson County land for the future construction of a new airport that would serve the massive amount of development that they planned to generate with the construction of Northside radial spurs like GA 400, I-575 and I-985 and a new Northern Arc, but the environmentalists successfully fought and got both the new airport and the Northern Arc nixed.)
Heck, there have long been rumors of some developers wanting to build a new mall and/or big retail/commercial development in that area of South Forsyth....Rumors that persist to this day despite the opening of nearby retail/commercial developments like the Collection of South Forsyth (at the GA 400/GA 141 interchange) and Avalon (at the GA 120 Old Milton Pkwy interchange). No movement on Taubman?s Ga. 400 mall site - Atlanta Business Chronicle
From the link above:
Quote:
The nation’s “most aggressive” upscale mall developer has stalled on its planned project in south Forsyth County — a sign metro Atlanta likely won’t get a new regional mall in the next five years.
Around 2008, Michigan-based Taubman Centers Inc. (NYSE: TCO) got approval for a $1 billion mixed-use development on a 164-acre site at Georgia 400 and McFarland Road. The project was proposed to have more than 1 million square feet of retail, including a luxury mall with around three anchor stores. It was set to open in phases beginning in 2011, but construction has yet to start.
The new interchange project at GA 400 and McGinnis Ferry Road smells much more like the usual land speculation and real estate development than it does transportation infrastructure improvement.
Some developers own a large tract of land (the piece of land outlined in red on the image in the link above) about a half-mile west of the Georgia 400/McGinnis Ferry Road junction which they intend to develop into a 164-acre mixed-use development project.
From the article in the link above:
Quote:
Seven Oaks gets zoning for Forsyth County project
Aug 8, 2013, 3:41pm EDT...
A 164-acre mixed-use project in Forysth County is moving ahead, marking the latest development along the Georgia 400 corridor.
A joint venture between developers Seven Oaks Company and Orkin and Associates recently successfully rezoned Deerfield Township, a planned $300 million mixed-use project at McGinnis Ferry and Strickland roads just west of 400.
The project would be the final phase of Deerfield, the more than 500-acre mixed-use development launched in the 1990s. Deerfield Township makes up the last piece of land that the Orkin family assembled there almost 40 years ago...
...Sites along 400 remain targets for new projects, even though nationally many developers have followed jobs and population growth back to the urban core.
The northern Atlanta suburbs are dotted with executive housing and strong schools, especially along the 400 corridor...
...Last month, Front Door Communities acquired 158 acres in south Forsyth to start a 400-home project. It was the metro Atlanta’s largest residential land transaction in seven years. In Alpharetta, North American Properties has broken ground on its Avalon mixed-use project. Taubman Centers Inc. (NYSE: TCO) still has plans to develop an upscale mall in south Forsyth, though the project has stalled.
South Forsyth is one of Atlanta’s strongest land markets, benefitting from both the housing recovery, and the growth brought about by the strong office, retail and other commercial market sectors, Seven Oaks Company said.
It's about time they built an interchange at McGinnis Ferry Road.
By the way, I'm skeptical of the theory of induced demand, because traffic volume in the United States has been flat for a decade now despite plenty of road-widening all over the country. Furthermore, just because traffic volume is no longer increasing doesn't necessarily mean that it's decreasing either. It's flat, going neither up nor down appreciably. If traffic volume is flat, then it does absolutely nothing to rectify existing bottlenecks on our roads and highways. What this means is, roads still have to be widened where bottlenecks still exist, much to the chagrin of the "invest in every mode of transportation except highways" people. What it also means is that widening roads won't necessarily induce demand because, once again, traffic volume is flat, not increasing.
On a related note, GA 400 needs to be a six-lane limited-access highway all the way up to GA 53 in Dawsonville.
On a related note, GA 400 needs to be a six-lane limited-access highway all the way up to GA 53 in Dawsonville.
It really does. It's just plain dangerous in so many spots (as is 316). After 53 headed up to Dahloenga isn't too bad. That left lane ending at McFarland causes a huge backup and it's still rough up to Cumming.
It's about time they built an interchange at McGinnis Ferry Road.
By the way, I'm skeptical of the theory of induced demand, because traffic volume in the United States has been flat for a decade now despite plenty of road-widening all over the country. Furthermore, just because traffic volume is no longer increasing doesn't necessarily mean that it's decreasing either. It's flat, going neither up nor down appreciably. If traffic volume is flat, then it does absolutely nothing to rectify existing bottlenecks on our roads and highways. What this means is, roads still have to be widened where bottlenecks still exist, much to the chagrin of the "invest in every mode of transportation except highways" people. What it also means is that widening roads won't necessarily induce demand because, once again, traffic volume is flat, not increasing.
I agree that severely-congested roads need to be widened to help traffic flow better.
But it's not the widening of a road like GA 400 alone that induces demand, it's all of the heavy residential, commercial and industrial development that they continue to pile on the road network that induces demand.
Heck, GA 400 itself is an example of induced demand. Before GA 400 was built, there was no heavy residential, commercial or industrial development along that corridor. There was no traffic problem along that corridor before GA 400 was built and completed because there basically was no traffic....Because there basically was no heavy development in existence to generate a traffic problem.
After GA 400 was completed, development along that entire corridor took off like a rocket from Buckhead up to Dawson County....And so did the traffic that continues to increase and worsen to this day.
Adding a new interchange to and widening a road like GA 400 would help traffic flow better if they did not continue to dump much more heavy development (and the additional traffic that said heavy development will generate) than the road could handle after it was improved and widened.
I mean, I often laugh when I see stories like this that say that adding a new interchange to GA 400 will lessen traffic congestion.
I laugh because I know that traffic may improve temporarily....Until they build tons more commercial development at the new interchange effectively negating whatever traffic relief the new interchange may have originally brought right after it opened (...see almost every interchange along GA 400 up to about GA 20).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella
On a related note, GA 400 needs to be a six-lane limited-access highway all the way up to GA 53 in Dawsonville.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedimenjerry
It really does. It's just plain dangerous in so many spots (as is 316). After 53 headed up to Dahloenga isn't too bad. That left lane ending at McFarland causes a huge backup and it's still rough up to Cumming.
Consider it partially done.
Georgia 400 is slated to be widened from McFarland Parkway up to Bald Ridge Marina Road with the passage of a $200 million bond referendum by Forsyth County voters back in November.
Forsyth voters approve transportation bond referendum
Widening of Ga. 400 highlight of $200M funding plan...
...James McCoy, the president and CEO of the Cumming-Forsyth County Chamber of Commerce echoed Patterson’s remarks, saying he “had a sense the community, by and large, was supportive of [the project] to widen [Ga.] 400. That this was a good idea.”...
...“I can’t think of any one thing we can do [in Forsyth County] that has a positive impact on businesses and job growth and everyday lives than the widening of Ga. 400,” McCoy said.
He and other supporters of the bond hope the upcoming projects will relieve congestion, shorten commute times and encourage more commercial development.
With the passage of the referendum, the plan is to widen Ga. 400 from McFarland Parkway to Bald Ridge Marina Road, using $53 million of the bond funding. The state is expected to contribute another $10 million.
Widening GA 400 will help relieve traffic congestion....Until they dump yet even more heavy development and traffic along the GA 400 corridor.
On a related note, GA 400 needs to be a six-lane limited-access highway all the way up to GA 53 in Dawsonville.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedimenjerry
It really does. It's just plain dangerous in so many spots (as is 316). After 53 headed up to Dahloenga isn't too bad. That left lane ending at McFarland causes a huge backup and it's still rough up to Cumming.
The idea of expanding the controlled-access portion of GA 400 up to about GA 53 (and possibly beyond) has actually been bandied about in the not-too-distant past at the state level.
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