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The new interchange, which hasn't really been designed yet, is suppose to take all of this into account. It isn't just the interchange, but also all of the exits and a small C/D system around the interchange.
That makes me curious... I wonder what a legitimate estimate of an increase of local spending (and therefore increased local sales tax) and increase in hotel tax could be directly attributed to just the Braves locations there.
I honestly have no idea.
It's a good question. I have read various estimates but I doubt anybody really knows for sure.
They do say about 1/3 of Braves tickets are purchased by people from other states, so a number of those folks likely spend money in local hotels and restaurants.
In your first post you didn't post any evidence of what you were trying to discuss, which is why I posted that link.
We can establish Dooley is against this plan and even in hypocritical way, but in a different way.
First, you're subject is about the Tea Party. You need to establish the link between the tea party and and those wanting the interchange to re-done. I'm not saying they haven't, but I haven't heard them saying that either. This is normally why we usually start most of our posts/discussion points with various types of articles/evidence on the matter first and then proceed to make an opinion of it.
So... establish the Tea Parties desires before pointing out a hypocrisy. I'm not sure if it is a double standard if they haven't really raised an opinion on the matter. I'm also not sure the inverse is particularly true either... people who want the interchange are tea partiers.
As for the interchange, something needs to eventually happen. It was designed to be a very small capacity interchange between a relatively quiet state suburban highway and the interstate. It was planned before Perimeter really established itself as a business district. It is actually much like the interchange at the Stone Mountain Freeway and I-285, which I still don't like. However, it carries far fewer cars, doesn't have as many close by exits, and isn't in the middle of a business district.
It actually fits the environment it was designed for originally, a quieter bedroom community route with fewer cars using the exit ramps on/off I-285.
The issue with GA400 and I-285 isn't just aobut cutting off minutes from a drive. That is how driver's will see it at first, but planners it is about a variety of things.
It is about a) Overall capacity - Even when it gets congested, it will still handle more cars switching different directions. Many of those ramps are a single lane, require a merge into traffic flow, and are on sharp curves. Collectively, that was designed for fewer cars. 2) Safety - Where cars merge is a big issue for how they can safely merge onto and off of other routes, and 3) Traffic Flow - This interchange with the left lane entries and close proximity to other exists without a C/D system generates a high amount of merging in a small stretch. This disturbs flow, regardless of how many lanes wide a freeway is. It also creates a situation where a high-amount of cars need access into and out of the right lane over a short stretch.
The new interchange, which hasn't really been designed yet, is suppose to take all of this into account. It isn't just the interchange, but also all of the exits and a small C/D system around the interchange.
Now I honestly am not sure how much this all should cost, but I know it won't be cheap and it is far from being a waste. It is a point many people, businesses, and their dollars are going. However, I'm also the furthest thing from a tea partier either.
wow..are you a lawyer?
I see a hypocrisy in that, at the most basic level, the Tea Party movement is a backlash against government spending, debt and deficits (do I really need to provide a link to explain more). yet they are silent on a ginormous debt creating interchange. In my mind their silence implicates them as accepting this billion dollar debt as okay but they cry and moan over the revised tax.
and for what its worth...any AICP planner will tell you expanding highways is not always the best answer...in fact in many world class cities in the US are closing them down from san fran to boston. I would think any tea partier would love the tax dollars saved in maintenance costs!
I see a hypocrisy in that, at the most basic level, the Tea Party movement is a backlash against government spending, debt and deficits (do I really need to provide a link to explain more). yet they are silent on a ginormous debt creating interchange. In my mind their silence implicates them as accepting this billion dollar debt as okay but they cry and moan over the revised tax.
and for what its worth...any AICP planner will tell you expanding highways is not always the best answer...in fact in many world class cities in the US are closing them down from san fran to boston. I would think any tea partier would love the tax dollars saved in maintenance costs!
To the former...
If they are silent or don't take a stance on it, they must be for it?
That isn't fair. It is just unfair and incorrect as their arguments usually are on various subjects.
To the latter, that isn't true. Those are several generalizations. There have been a few freeways shut down to some success, but they were also planned carefully in regards to their purpose on the whole system regionally. Boston is a different case, they actually spent a great deal of money for a highway enhancement at the same time they were trying to get it out of site.
It is also untrue that never building highways or fixing a traffic choke point isn't a solution. Again that is a generalization often pitched by people who only want development to occur in one way, that often makes land and development costs spike. It is also zoning dependent. We have to work within the context of how past generations zoned and built out region.
If they are silent or don't take a stance on it, they must be for it?
That isn't fair. It is just unfair and incorrect as their arguments usually are on various subjects.
To the latter, that isn't true. Those are several generalizations. There have been a few freeways shut down to some success, but they were also planned carefully in regards to their purpose on the whole system regionally. Boston is a different case, they actually spent a great deal of money for a highway enhancement at the same time they were trying to get it out of site.
It is also untrue that never building highways or fixing a traffic choke point isn't a solution. Again that is a generalization often pitched by people who only want development to occur in one way, that often makes land and development costs spike. It is also zoning dependent. We have to work within the context of how past generations zoned and built out region.
So yes, that junction is a problem.
I said I feel it implicates them as accepting it as okay...not for or against...just a laissez-faire attitude to it. I typically don't feel the TP is passive in their stance on how taxes are spent. So I think its a fair argument that their silence on this is hypocritical of their stance. Its an ideology...they should have an opinion...its their job.
Shoot...the TP idea on highways is to privatize and toll them...then remove the gas tax to pay for them. If one wants to live out that way they should have to freedom to do so, and everyone else who chooses to live in other areas should have the freedom from subsidizing their commute.
I didn't say never building highways or fixing traffic choke points isn't a solution. My exact words were "expanding highways is not always the best answer" Expanding highways is an answer to the problem...but is it the best answer and highest and best use of our money?
The analogy I like is: expanding highways is like loosening your belt to deal with your obesity problem...
I don't like seeing my tax dollars thrown away, as I doubt anyone does, yet I don't understand why the TP is quiet on this. Which is my original question.
I don't like seeing my tax dollars thrown away, as I doubt anyone does, yet I don't understand why the TP is quiet on this. Which is my original question.
Because it is politically inconvenient for them. The tea party is a joke. They are just GOP extremists. Maybe one day the American people will get a real libertarian (socially liberal / fiscal conservative alignment that most Americans identify with) faction they can vote for. But it is not the Tea Party.
Because it is politically inconvenient for them. The tea party is a joke. They are just GOP extremists. Maybe one day the American people will get a real libertarian (socially liberal / fiscal conservative alignment that most Americans identify with) faction they can vote for. But it is not the Tea Party.
Gary Johnson seemed pretty legitimate, not sure if he has ties with the TP but he seemed to be a pretty level headed libertarian. I agree with some aspects of libertarianism, my main concerns having to do with the environment, education and scientific endeavors. Some things have to be publicly funded.
The TPers seem to be more anarchist than anything else, similar to a good portion of the Occupy movement. Their expectations are unreasonable, in my opinion and there seems to be a disconnect with reality.
I just think the main stream in Cobb likes the idea of having the Braves nearby.
Everyone except those who have to drive through the area to get home after work.
Everyone except those who actually live in the part of Cobb close to the ballpark, namely Smyrna residents who have NO say in any of this - or Cobb residents general who have had no say in subsidizing a private company's move that is both significant in terms of money and in terms of traffic impact.
I said I feel it implicates them as accepting it as okay...not for or against...just a laissez-faire attitude to it. I typically don't feel the TP is passive in their stance on how taxes are spent. So I think its a fair argument that their silence on this is hypocritical of their stance. Its an ideology...they should have an opinion...its their job.
Shoot...the TP idea on highways is to privatize and toll them...then remove the gas tax to pay for them. If one wants to live out that way they should have to freedom to do so, and everyone else who chooses to live in other areas should have the freedom from subsidizing their commute.
I didn't say never building highways or fixing traffic choke points isn't a solution. My exact words were "expanding highways is not always the best answer" Expanding highways is an answer to the problem...but is it the best answer and highest and best use of our money?
The analogy I like is: expanding highways is like loosening your belt to deal with your obesity problem...
I don't like seeing my tax dollars thrown away, as I doubt anyone does, yet I don't understand why the TP is quiet on this. Which is my original question.
I'm not sure what to tell you. There are so many -real- reasons to make fun of the TP and -real- direct hypocrisies to point out about them, that we don't really have to make them up. Hell, I did it about this same subject.
It still seems unfair to me that you must assume silence on any of thousands of issues marks hypocrisy... that isn't a smoking a gun.
In this case, yes. It is a great project. That interchange is so ineffective and damaging to traffic flow that the full value of the travel lanes and exits around it are very inefficient. Replacing the interchange could greatly enhance access to the Perimeter area.
And sadly this is critical, because that area has such a poor arterial road system going in and out of it and that systems has a great number of barriers to fixing too.
Now whether you like it or not, this is far from 'throwing away' tax dollars. It is a real highly used interchange operating well above capacity in the middle of a major jobs center. It might not be -your- first choice, but that it hardly the same as throwing away money.
][quote=cwkimbro;38264811]I'm not sure what to tell you. There are so many -real- reasons to make fun of the TP and -real- direct hypocrisies to point out about them, that we don't really have to make them up. Hell, I did it about this same subject.
It still seems unfair to me that you must assume silence on any of thousands of issues marks hypocrisy... that isn't a smoking a gun.
Absolutely NOT unfair to hold this ideology, or any ideology, to the flame. I contend it is a smoking gun. For this group, with such a strong ideology, it absolutely is a smoking gun. The whole point of having a strong ideology, be it a democrat, republican or any other, is to have an opinion. its is their job.
And I am not here to "make fun" of the TP. Holding them accountable As we all should to any govt entity.
In this case, yes. It is a great project. That interchange is so ineffective and damaging to traffic flow that the full value of the travel lanes and exits around it are very inefficient. Replacing the interchange could greatly enhance access to the Perimeter area.
A BILLION dollars...for an intersection. Not a great project. This is a bridge to nowhere and a waste of my and your money and the Tea Party should call it out or admit their hypocrisy. This is not the highest and best use of your tax dollars
And sadly this is critical, because that area has such a poor arterial road system going in and out of it and that systems has a great number of barriers to fixing too.
Now whether you like it or not, this is far from 'throwing away' tax dollars. It is a real highly used interchange operating well above capacity in the middle of a major jobs center. It might not be -your- first choice, but that it hardly the same as throwing away money.
Keep expanding the belt to solve the obesity problem I guess right? Whether you like it or not this is lipstick on a pig that will quickly wash away and this absolutely is 'throwing away' your tax dollars. [/QU
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