"The Braves, Cobb County, and the debate over expanding mass transit" (Atlanta: school, sales tax)

[st3mpy]

Originally Posted by dcredskins

Why do people who don't live in Cobb care so much if they join Marta?

When you drive South on I-75 in the morning, is North Bound completely empty?

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by dcredskins

It's not a conspiracy, it's a fact of life. Cities/countries want to add rich areas that pay in more in tax revenue than they use. Atlanta would have loved to have gotten their hands on North Fulton cities. That's why they incorporated themselves. It blocked future attempts to be absorbed into the city.

All I hear are complaints and no suggestions on how to fix them. Clayton county has already shown that a county joining the MARTA system can, and I believe should, negotiate with MARTA as to how their taxes are spent. Any money collected from Cobb can be divided between funding Rail in the county, funding buses, and paying into the system as a whole.

It's not really fair to expect every cent of every dollar collected from Cobb to go right back into Cobb, since any improvements along the system would still give any Cobb citizen the benefit of those improvements. System-wide improvements / expansions help everyone who is part of the system, and I would say the same if those improvements were in Cobb, Gwinnet, Clayton, Fulton, or DeKalb.

This idea that it's your money and only yours to be spent only in your county defeats the whole purpose of joining a regional transit network.

That said, I do understand why you would want to insure your needs are met, that your level of access is brought up to at least meet the other counties. I would even argue that for a county like Cobb, they need better access simply due to their population.

It is therefore best if Cobb negotiated something along the lines of Clayton's 50/50 deal, but with percentages adjusted for Cobb's needs for connectivity. 75% for rail and 25% for buses SHOULD do it, though better analysis should be done.

I urge you to not just complain, but come up with ideas on how to fix it.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

It is therefore best if Cobb negotiated something along the lines of Clayton's 50/50 deal, but with percentages adjusted for Cobb's needs for connectivity. 75% for rail and 25% for buses SHOULD do it, though better analysis should be done.

I would definitely have no problem with this, and even 25% would expand their buses far beyond CCT's existing system.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by Gulch

I would definitely have no problem with this, and even 25% would expand their buses far beyond CCT's existing system.

EXACTLY. No matter what, there would be an increase from what they're getting now, with the highly likely possibility of getting much more.

If Cobb is as much a cash source as people like to say (no doubt about it really), then they would have immense negotiating power when at the table with MARTA.

I can all but guarantee you Cobb won't get swindled, especially if they work with MARTA to get what Cobb wants out of the deal. The real hurdle is to get to the table at all.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

All I hear are complaints and no suggestions on how to fix them. Clayton county has already shown that a county joining the MARTA system can, and I believe should, negotiate with MARTA as to how their taxes are spent. Any money collected from Cobb can be divided between funding Rail in the county, funding buses, and paying into the system as a whole.

It's not really fair to expect every cent of every dollar collected from Cobb to go right back into Cobb, since any improvements along the system would still give any Cobb citizen the benefit of those improvements. System-wide improvements / expansions help everyone who is part of the system, and I would say the same if those improvements were in Cobb, Gwinnet, Clayton, Fulton, or DeKalb.

This idea that it's your money and only yours to be spent only in your county defeats the whole purpose of joining a regional transit network.

That said, I do understand why you would want to insure your needs are met, that your level of access is brought up to at least meet the other counties. I would even argue that for a county like Cobb, they need better access simply due to their population.

It is therefore best if Cobb negotiated something along the lines of Clayton's 50/50 deal, but with percentages adjusted for Cobb's needs for connectivity. 75% for rail and 25% for buses SHOULD do it, though better analysis should be done.

I urge you to not just complain, but come up with ideas on how to fix it.

Good suggestions. Hopefully those old boys up in Cobb are reading this forum.

[sedimenjerry]

Yea I think Cobb and Gwinnett would have a lot of sway if they want to join. The 2nd largest county in the state and one of the largest (4th?) would be a huge grab for Marta.

[dcredskins]

Fact of the matter is that most of the stations and most of the riders won't be in Cobb, so again, unless Cobb can pay less in, it's not going to happen. Cobb joining Mary's isn't about what's good for ATL, it's about what's good for Cobb.

[dcredskins]

Originally Posted by st3mpy

When you drive South on I-75 in the morning, is North Bound completely empty?

Relatively empty because most people live outside the city, and drive in for work and leave after work. I reverse commuted to Kennesaw everyday with no problems. If you take the Marta, then the highway traffic situation on't affect you.

[DawgPark]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Good suggestions. Hopefully those old boys up in Cobb are reading this forum.

You unknowingly hit the nail on the head, Arjay.

I'd guess I talk to more Cobb officials/politicians than most on this board. There is a big age-gap in the pro-transit vs hate-MARTA contentions. Under 50 is largely pro transit. Over 60 is vehemently anti-MARTA.

And make no mistake, the older Cobb folks aren't really anti-transit. They just HATE, and I mean HATE any mention of MARTA. "Decades of horrible management" gets thrown around often. "Publicly funded employment agency" ... "Haven't turned a profit in 40 years" .... etc.

And there is, of course, the "I won't use it, so I don't want to pay for it" group ... usually from again, the older, wealthy folks in East Cobb.

Another factor - Cobb residents over 62 pay no school taxes, which are roughly 80% of property taxes. Until the Braves announcement, the average age of Cobb residents was getting older every year. Since then, and w/ the construction of nearly 4,500 new apartment/condo units around Cumberland, that average is now starting to flatten or even go lower due to millennials.

You could take away the over-62 exemption, but that's politically nuclear. If you did, you'd have a more pro-transit crowd due to the mass exodus of senior protesters to Woodstock/Canton.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by dcredskins

Fact of the matter is that most of the stations and most of the riders won't be in Cobb, so again, unless Cobb can pay less in, it's not going to happen. Cobb joining Mary's isn't about what's good for ATL, it's about what's good for Cobb.

An who's decided that? Cobb would have leverage enough to work with MARTA to plan routes. That's not even taking into account that MARTA would want to put the lines where they would be used. Anything that MARTA built would have to go through rounds of studies, ensuring it met public need.

'Most of the stations and most of the riders won't be in Cobb' is an odd statement, considering I already offered a solution to that. If Cobb negotiated that a majority of its funding go to rail, then a direct part of that would be including how much service MARTA could afford to build inside Cobb.

There's no reason for Cobb to pay a lesser rate than any other county, considering that the amount of service they get will be directly proportional to what they pay.

Cobb joining MARTA isn't about what's good for ATL or Cobb, it's about what's good for the METRO. Cobb doesn't exist in a vacuum, nor does any other county / city. Plenty of people commute to work in the county. Plenty commute to work outside of it. Plenty travel between many parts of the METRO for entertainment, shopping, employment, schooling, so on and so on.

Improving mobility helps everyone, and yes that includes Cobb.