Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Too bad you will not be getting the vote in Metro Atlanta because of your view of the Religious bill
Some of the most utterly douchey comments from Cagle that I have ever seen in my life from anyone. What in the actual crap is he talking about? Basically blaming MARTA for the situation that white Republican politicians have placed it in over the decades?
I make negative comments about MARTA and its lack of usefulness, from the perspective of a very pro-transit liberal. I'm actually criticizing the people who have made sure MARTA has always been stunted. Not the way the organization is run internally.
When conservatives, usually OTP Republican white people, criticize MARTA, they need to be criticizing themselves.
MARTA *IS*, the exact thing these people envision. Or it *WAS* that vision, but from the very start these very same people (and their fathers), prevented it from becoming that. Now they have the audacity to complain that MARTA doesn't go to Gwinnett and the north suburbs. WTF. That was the plan, you said no.
And along those lines, I really hate the idea of them starting from scratch, with metro commuter rail, especially on lines where it would run concurrent with the heavy rail. Why should we need to pay for and build a redundant train line and entirely new system right next to the MARTA Gold line, that goes through Norcross, Duluth, Suwanee? Just extend the train to there. It hasn't even been touched in 25 years FFS. Gwinnett has like tripled in population since then.
I don't see why Five Points Station can't be the MMPT. Let's just use the heavy rail system, as a commuter rail hybrid, to cover the whole 5-county metro, and use the GRTA long-range express buses for the outer counties.
The stops really aren't that frequent. On the Gold line, it only stops once per suburb/city. If it's a question of long-distance comfort, just upgrade the interiors of the trains and the seats to be more comfortable.
But we should be able to just use the system that we've had in place all this time. Single seat ride. Just expand it out.
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,334 posts, read 26,089,277 times
Reputation: 3995
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech
When conservatives, usually OTP Republican white people, criticize MARTA, they need to be criticizing themselves.
MARTA *IS*, the exact thing these people envision. Or it *WAS* that vision, but from the very start these very same people (and their fathers), prevented it from becoming that. Now they have the audacity to complain that MARTA doesn't go to Gwinnett and the north suburbs. WTF. That was the plan, you said no.
Keep in mind that no formal votes have been taken in some of the northern counties (e.g., Cobb) since the 1970's. 80% of the current population didn't exist at that point. Your comment is divisive and not factual. Even though I support both MARTA and the concept of rail in Cobb, I understand why the folks who lived in a few small towns in a largely rural area might not have had an interest back when that vote was taken.
Last edited by rcsteiner; 04-18-2016 at 12:10 PM..
Reason: s/liked/lived
And along those lines, I really hate the idea of them starting from scratch, with metro commuter rail, especially on lines where it would run concurrent with the heavy rail. Why should we need to pay for and build a redundant train line and entirely new system right next to the MARTA Gold line, that goes through Norcross, Duluth, Suwanee? Just extend the train to there. It hasn't even been touched in 25 years FFS. Gwinnett has like tripled in population since then.
I don't see why Five Points Station can't be the MMPT. Let's just use the heavy rail system, as a commuter rail hybrid, to cover the whole 5-county metro, and use the GRTA long-range express buses for the outer counties.
The stops really aren't that frequent. On the Gold line, it only stops once per suburb/city. If it's a question of long-distance comfort, just upgrade the interiors of the trains and the seats to be more comfortable.
But we should be able to just use the system that we've had in place all this time. Single seat ride. Just expand it out.
I think we should have both technologies. HRT is best where rail lines don't already exist. Commuter rail is better on existing rail routes.
Too bad you will not be getting the vote in Metro Atlanta because of your view of the Religious bill
This whole thing just screams pandering, and it kinda ticks me off.
Quote:
Perhaps no Georgia Republican has supported transit more publicly than Lt. Gov. Casey Cagle. Certainly, none who holds such a high office and aspires to a higher one.
Vocal, sure, but not particularly helpful.
Quote:
So, as the legislative session wound down last month, I asked Cagle about a pared-down bill to expand MARTA in Atlanta. He spoke, animatedly, for almost an hour — giving the impression he didn’t fault MARTA for originally seeking a larger expansion so much as having too little vision.
Doesn't fault? Excuse me? As if there were fault that he is excusing them of.
How exactly is it MARTA's fault that suburban politicians blocked out their bigger plans? How exactly is it MARTA's fault that the Balkanization, again a product of suburbanites, has made expansion and funding a nightmare? How is it MARTA's fault that no matter how big their visions are, it doesn't matter if people refuse the agency on the principle of classist assumptions?
Quote:
“There are people being served by this entity,” Cagle began. “But I would submit to you that if it were truly adding immense value, it would be oversubscribed. And I don’t know that we’re at that place. … How do you fix that? What do you make MARTA?”
That's such a backward thought process. Just because something isn't at critical mass doesn't mean it isn't of immense value! MARTA has the 8th largest rider/mile (2014) value in the country. MARTA has the 8th largest ridership in the nation. These are just for the rapid transit systems.
Maybe, just maybe, if MARTA had been built out as originally planned, as in, with lines into Gwinnett and Cobb, it would have more riders. Gwinnett and Cobb, NOT MARTA, killed that idea, though.
Quote:
Note the transformation implied there. Cagle is clearly more impressed by other U.S. systems — “Go to D.C., go to any other metropolitan area, and you will find a system that people see value in. And they are utilizing it daily.” — and by intercity networks abroad. Consider “the ability to get on a train and go anywhere in Germany you choose, with an app on your phone that says exactly when the train is arriving.”
To be fair, WMATA is falling apart, and has had to shut down for a full 29 hours to inspect their system to make sure it doesn't keep suffocating people.
Again, people use MARTA daily too. Rush hour trains and buses are quite full, often standing room only.
Maybe if MARTA hadn't been kept from expanding, if GRTA was fully funded, if GDoT could build their inter-city rail, and we had the Southeast Corridor running, could we achieve anything close to Germany. Guess who never wants to pay for it. Guess who keeps voting down, or killing any attempts to make any of that a reality. I'll tell you it's rarely the people who are already served by MARTA.
Oh, also, MARTA already has an app, as well as 3rd party apps, that DO tell you when your next train or bus is arriving.
Quote:
In Georgia, he suggested, that could mean “a true commuter option” enabling “someone in northern Gwinnett to get on a train and come to the city (of Atlanta), with all of those amenities, with WiFi (and) the ability to do an hour’s work.”
The city wants that. MARTA wants that. GRTA wants that. GDoT wants that. You know who doesn't want that? The people in North Georgia, as they showed in this most recent round of expansion efforts.
Also, Wi-Fi is coming to trains and buses already.
Quote:
That involves more than rebranding the agency or improving security, perennial ideas Cagle echoed, or adding fancier train cars. It would require a revamped MARTA, one he described as “country club” and even “elite.”
Elite MARTA... that... sounds an awful lot like 'rich people only' train cars. I'm not sure how you make it 'elite', but it honestly sounds like a waste of money chasing after people so embedded in their ideas that they won't care how fancy the trains are.
Also, that's rebranding.
Quote:
“If you have (more) capital, you could introduce new types of deliverables for consumers that are more of a nonstop approach,” he explained. “There is no reason why you couldn’t introduce express (service) with local and integrate it with the existing system and add to it.”
You're right, if you have more capital, you can do more! Now, who again keeps from voting on increasing MARTA's, GRTA's, and GDoT's, funding for transit expansions?
Well, there actually are reasons why you can't introduce and that mostly has to do with how MARTA was originally built, in that it only has two tracks. Sure, we could pay to introduce express tracks, either along the whole thing, or with bypass tracks in the stations, but that would require an INCREDIBLE capital investment that would make this most recent $8 Bil. expansion look like chump-change. It would require some form of overhaul across the entire system.
Now, if we're talking about commuter trains that don't use MARTA tracks, and don't stop but maybe twice ITP, then sure, we can do that, but it requires funding SOMEONE to do it.
Quote:
Sounds expensive. But Cagle warned the state won’t invest in MARTA until it’s convinced the agency is on a new track. He called for changes like those that turned around Grady Memorial Hospital, including a “sustainable financial model” and a “governance structure in which the state and all stakeholders feel confident investing.”
Are you ****ing kidding me? The agency that has turned itself around financially, seen a whole new county join, and who is poised for the largest expansion since its inception, isn't a good investment? What the hell does the expect to see then!? What could possibly satisfy the state's demand to be more 'sustainable' than to be... you know, sustainable given its level of funding?
Quote:
This may be surprising to those who thought MARTA’s general manager, Keith Parker, already led such a turnaround. “I think Keith, when he came here, he had a lot of challenges — I mean a lot of challenges — he had to face,” Cagle allowed. “And I think it was more of steadying the ship than thinking futuristically about what could be. …
Are you ****ing kidding me... again? MARTA is poised to fund and execute a massive expansion initiative, with others in the works in a year or so. That's not even including the Clayton commuter rail.
Here's an idea: if the state could get it's classist, idelogue clogged head out of its own ass, and look to the future itself, perhaps MARTA, GRTA, and GDoT could actually get us there. That requires investing in them, though.
Quote:
“Whoever leads this organization’s going to have to look at it that way,” he continued. “But I don’t think Keith’s had the freedom and the ability to look at it that way. … You can’t place all the blame at his feet. It’s like a football coach. If he doesn’t pick his players, are you really going to blame him for losing?”
They already are! You just can't see it, nor can you apparently see that the very people you claim to represent are the ones killing that vision.
Quote:
MARTA, he said, needs “the right people in all of the positions” so that “you really do have a board, and it is made up of independent experts.” The agency should be run “as a business, not a political organization.
”
I suspect that's only because it's not his politics. Granted, there could be more actual transit people governing, you know, transit in the state, but that's not a MARTA board issue. MARTA HAS its staff of experts, planners, and professionals. The MARTA board is made of representatives of the counties that MARTA serves, bringing the needs of the region MARTA serves to MARTA.
Run as a business... as in... what? Do you expect to have MARTA 100% funded without any tax funds? I don't understand how you expect anything to happen in that case... If you expect MARTA to optimize its funds and cut waste, well, they've been doing that for quite a bit of time. If you expect MARTA to supplement its funding with additional revenue streams, well they're already doing that too.
This is a ****e statement that's so vague as to be nothing but pandering to a base ignorant of how the agency works.
Quote:
His bottom line: “You’re sitting on a gold mine, and unfortunately you’re squandering it. That’s the way a business guy looks at it.”
No, Mr.Cagle, we've been trying to expand it for the longest time, but those who live outside of its influence rather routinely kill that plan. Why don't you GO TO MARTA and talk to them? Why don't you work with the agencies you have, all three or four of them, and work out a full regional plan and funding effort.
Instead of chastising MARTA for things they can't control, why don't you get down in the gritty and do something about it? Naw, it's just easier to say it's all MARTA's fault.
I poorly worded that, but the point I was trying to make is that the transit system(s) are going to end up segregated, which bothers me. An express commuter railroad for sheltered white folks from Suwanee, straight to the airport, without stopping anywhere deemed undesirable. And a MARTA heavy rail system for the black and brown folks. It should be one system, one network that unifies everyone and every area across the region. The great equalizer, so to speak, like the NY subway.
I poorly worded that, but the point I was trying to make is that the transit system(s) are going to end up segregated, which bothers me. An express commuter railroad for sheltered white folks from Suwanee, straight to the airport, without stopping anywhere deemed undesirable. And a MARTA heavy rail system for the black and brown folks. It should be one system, one network that unifies everyone and every area across the region. The great equalizer, so to speak, like the NY subway.
I honestly don't see how this is racist. While I may agree that the HRT should be built out into the burbs, I just don't believe that this proposal - and that is all it is - it's about "sheltered white folks" and "black and brown folks." I understand people being frustrated about the whole local transit affair and lack of a cohesive vision for it, but to toss race into the mix only makes improving the system that much more difficult. Not trying to criticize your perspective or argue with you primaltech (I enjoy your posts and find them informative and thought provoking).
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,334 posts, read 26,089,277 times
Reputation: 3995
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech
I poorly worded that, but the point I was trying to make is that the transit system(s) are going to end up segregated, which bothers me. An express commuter railroad for sheltered white folks from Suwanee, straight to the airport, without stopping anywhere deemed undesirable. And a MARTA heavy rail system for the black and brown folks. It should be one system, one network that unifies everyone and every area across the region. The great equalizer, so to speak, like the NY subway.
I agree that a general system that hits all of the important places and communities ITP and along the perimeter (at least) regardless of the political or ethnic makeups of the various communities would be a good thing.
People would (hopefully) look at it as a generalized transportation option within the metro and not one associated with stereotypes.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
