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Interesting. I am not sure I would really consider that commuter rail. But I guess it is.
Last time I was in Denver they were building the fly-overs for this line and I assumed it was just HRT from the looks of it.
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Originally Posted by primaltech
That was my thought exactly. It's interesting. Kind of like an urban light rail or heavy rail system, that looks like a railroad. This A Line is, anyway. Their other lines which are soon to open will probably go out to the suburbs, like a true commuter railroad. And they will all converge on that Union Station in downtown Denver.
Something like this design, though, does seem different/more modern than what I traditionally thought of as commuter rail, like the slow, infrequent, schedule/timetable-based traditional northern style. Not a fan.
Something like this though I could see really working well for Metro Atlanta, and even parts of the city. If we're talking frequent trains every 15 minutes most of the day every day, and quick stops. So basically functioning like a light rail.
I could see something that looks and operates just like this, stopping in downtown Vinings, Cumberland, downtown Smyrna, Downtown Marietta, etc. And all the way into the city via stops on the west side. Then stops at Emory, Northlake, Tucker, then out into Gwinnett, etc.
Maybe "commuter rail" is a confusing term that just needs a new modern understanding of it. I like it if it's the best of the worlds of heavy rail and light rail, and for cheap, and not too infrequent like what I imagine with traditional old school suburban commuter rail.
That line is commuter rail, the electrified catenary version. Those cars are clones of the Hyundai-Rotem SL-V first put into service in the US by SEPTA a couple of years ago. RTD can run those trains on 15 minute headways because they have no issues with congestion. The limiting factors in Northeast are shared track between commuter (has lowest priority on Amtrak dispatched track), Amtrak and freight along with capacity limits on trunk lines. That said, there are select commuter rail stations in SEPTA's system that have service as frequently as every seven minutes at peak times. The same is true on other systems like the LIRR and Metro North.
For longer distances in metro Atlanta commuter would make sense.
I'm just saying, I've always seen the need for MARTA heavy rail to continue its short stunted lines into Gwinnett and Cobb counties, as much as a cultural need, than just a raw transportation need. A new express long-range commuter system that bypasses the existing system, might be useful but would in my opinion kind of fail to address the need for people to confront (and ultimately get over) irrational fears of demographics. The need for the metropolis to finally be, and feel, metropolitan.
A commuter rail system "bypassing" ITP areas has nothing to do with race or demographics or anything remotely like that. It's simply better transit planning to build outer transfer stations for transfer to the local service (MARTA HRT).
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And bus routes as well, should be continuous and seamless across the heavily populous inner 5-counties. All the county lines except Fulton and DeKalb's, have all my life always felt like these invisible walls. Enough with all the political balkanization with everything. Let's just use MARTA's existing rail framework and continue and expand it, in a way that unifies everyone.
Heavy rail is the unique advantage in place that Metro Atlanta has over all the other sunbelt boom towns. We already have a station at the airport, at 2 out of the 3 major pro sports stadiums, a central hub station in downtown, and stations at most of the job center areas. Now just need park & ride stations out in the suburbs, so people can actually use those other stations, finally. Streetcar/light rail is the future of the ITP/urban transit needs, and in my opinion the MARTA HRT system should be the commuter rail system for the region.
I'm not saying no to commuter railroad, I think it would be great for things like Gainesville into Atlanta or Atlanta to Athens, or Atlanta to Canton, or Peachtree City or McDonough. But I don't want it to replace or supplant the existing heavy rail system in the 5 counties.
No one is talking about replacing or supplanting MARTA's Heavy Rail. Both modes have their purpose, and it is wrong to try and force either of the modes into fitting a profile it isn't suited for.
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MARTA as it was originally envisioned was great, I think we should go back and just simply do that, and add some more stuff. Continue the Green line into NW Atlanta, build the Emory -> Tucker line, build the Brookwood/Northside Dr line, and extend to Alpharetta and etc. use all the provisions and plans.
We shouldn't need to start from scratch with another regional rail network just because conservative suburban people have a knee-jerk, poorly thought out prejudiced reaction to the word "MARTA".
Except for "greenfield" corridors like GA-400 and I-20 East, HRT should stop at I-285. Beyond that, the cost vs. benefit ratio greatly favors commuter rail due to the declining density and concentration of population around existing rail lines which can be leveraged for far cheaper than new HRT RoW which unless you're talking about GDOT RoW like GA-400, is essentially a greenfield installation anywhere it goes.
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Originally Posted by Pemgin
Good post. I envision the Atlanta Streetcar/Beltline light rail complimenting MARTA in a similar way to how BART and Muni compliment each other and serve unique needs throughout the region.
San Francisco also has Caltrain running from the far southern suburbs, and ACE coming in from over 80 miles away originating in Stockton. That's in addition to Amtrak California's numerous Capitol Corridor and San Joaquin service which serve somewhat as commuter rail. Additionally, the bay area population is far more compressed between the mountains and ocean/bay making it much easier to serve by a few backbone lines which actually need the higher density of BART with the commuter rail systems I list above out into the lighter-density areas.
Really love this train design/look. If we do ever have commuter rail, I hope it looks exactly like this, but with MARTA colors for the stripes. The 79 MPH is also very impressive.
Maybe I could be sold on commuter rail after all. Hmm.
79mph is the standard speed for passenger rail operations in the United States. Most systems reach that with the Los Angeles area Metrolink reaching 90 in a few stretches. Except for MARC and NJT, few of the systems in the northeast even exceed 79 with Metro North not having speed limits much higher than 70, which I will freely admit is also MARTA's top speed.
Ideally I'd like Atlanta's commuter rail to use BiLevel EMUs like these used in Chicago: RailPictures.Net Photo: METX 1255 Metra Electric M.U. at Homewood, Illinois by Nick Hart though those are for 1500v DC and Denver's system is 25kV AC as opposed to the light rail standard of 750v DC. But the Silverliner Vs used in Denver aren't bad and I'm excited to see their new A line open up in two days.
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Originally Posted by jsvh
Interesting. I am not sure I would really consider that commuter rail. But I guess it is.
Last time I was in Denver they were building the fly-overs for this line and I assumed it was just HRT from the looks of it.
It shares trackage with the national network. I believe the airport line will be the only line that has a rapid transit-like schedule with the other commuter rail lines in Denver being on more conventional schedules. But the system isn't any different really than most in the Northeast, particularly the LIRR and Metro North. NJT and SEPTA are somewhat similar, but have somewhat less regular schedules throughout the day.
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Originally Posted by primaltech
That was my thought exactly. It's interesting. Kind of like an urban light rail or heavy rail system, that looks like a railroad. This A Line is, anyway. Their other lines which are soon to open will probably go out to the suburbs, like a true commuter railroad. And they will all converge on that Union Station in downtown Denver.
Something like this design, though, does seem different/more modern than what I traditionally thought of as commuter rail, like the slow, infrequent, schedule/timetable-based traditional northern style. Not a fan.
Why not? As I said above, commuter rail systems aren't all that slow. Now you do have something of a point about frequency and timetables, but they still serve more than adequately (see below).
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Something like this though I could see really working well for Metro Atlanta, and even parts of the city. If we're talking frequent trains every 15 minutes most of the day every day, and quick stops. So basically functioning like a light rail.
Except OTP areas don't need that high level of service all day long. Many places would be more than adequately served even with a two hour gap between trains at times. That's the advantage of using existing infrastructure, it isn't as much of a "waste" to scale back service at times of the day since the infrastructure will still be used by freight trains.
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I could see something that looks and operates just like this, stopping in downtown Vinings, Cumberland, downtown Smyrna, Downtown Marietta, etc. And all the way into the city via stops on the west side. Then stops at Emory, Northlake, Tucker, then out into Gwinnett, etc.
Maybe "commuter rail" is a confusing term that just needs a new modern understanding of it. I like it if it's the best of the worlds of heavy rail and light rail, and for cheap, and not too infrequent like what I imagine with traditional old school suburban commuter rail.
Commuter rail primarily means an FRA-regulated railroad (thus able to share infrastructure) serving the suburbs and far-flung locations with the ability to scale demand as needed, which usually means primarily inbound in the morning, and outbound in the afternoon.
Great post MattCW, thank you. Nice detailed descriptions.
I'll make up my mind to change my mind, and agree with you. I see what you're saying.
Obviously, for North Fulton and maybe I-20 east, since you have no railroad corridor there, extending the heavy rail would be appropriate. And like you agreed, you could always do new heavy rail ITP, like extend the Green Line or adding infill stations.
I'm starting to see what the potential could be, with commuter rail, where I didn't see it clearly or fully before. I think looking into this awesome Denver FasTracks system is helping. (Forgive me, I've never lived anywhere that had commuter rail.)
So let me know what you think about this. Imagine the exact Denver Fastracks model- same cars at same length, same overhead power, same station design (with park & rides), same operational frequency (15 mins), same price (and zoning model), same speed, etc. And let's look at NW Atlanta and into Cobb County, for example.
If you started from a hypothetical "Union Station"/ MMPT hub at Five Points, where would/could the first stop be? Could you space the stations more like heavy rail spacing? So like, Centennial Park, GA Tech/Marietta St, Howell Mill, Collier Rd, Moores Mill... or would that be too frequent for commuter rail? I guess the question is, can commuter rail be scaled to run as a hybrid subway system like MARTA HRT does, with more stops ITP, and fewer stops OTP, and gradually more and more spacing as the line goes out? Or would commuter rail for Atlanta necessitate "express" service that stops in Downtown Atlanta, then maybe stops once at the Perimeter, then goes to OTP suburbs?
Because I like the idea of using commuter rail trains, perhaps shorter length, like one car or 2, as essentially just like a LRT system in the city, then it seamlessly merges out into a long-range system OTP.
Like, for example, in Cobb County I would definitely want to see a stop (perhaps a non-park&ride), in 'downtown' Vinings at Paces Ferry Rd. But then I also think there should be a stop (definitely a park&ride), at Cumberland Blvd @ Cumberland Pkwy (where the bus transfer center is). So that's only about a mile between.
Then the next definite stop is downtown Smyrna, then maybe another stop or 2, then downtown Marietta right next to the square. Would be utterly perfect and awesome.
I just hope Georgia can figure out a deal to get these heavily used freight corridors to run passenger lines, and I don't know if that means having to lay new adjacent tracks in the RoW, or what.
Also, particularly at spots like Paces Ferry right there, seems to me you would need to build new bridges or tunnels for the road, to achieve grade separation with the tracks.
And I know in Gwinnett along Buford Highway, there are a lot of at-grade crossings, like at Jones Mill. I think some of those would probably need to be made fully grade separated.
But, overall yes I absolutely do see the cost savings involved. Just basically need to buy the vehicles, and build the actually pretty simple stations. The stations aren't all that much more complicated than the Atlanta Streetcar stations. Just larger.
So yes, I like commuter rail now. I guess I never really thought about what it is, what it could be, how flexible and custom-tailored for our city that it potentially, hopefully could be.
Oh, and obviously, where it runs right next to the heavy rail line, you wouldn't need to stop, that would be redundant. A stop at Doraville, a stop at Lenox, but skip Chamblee and Brookhaven which are residential suburbs anyway. And it can skip Lindbergh.
However, it would then need to stop where MARTA rail does not go, and is needed. So, Armour, Brookwood, Atlantic Station, Northside Dr, GA Tech, etc.
That way we can do 2 in 1. The same line that serves Suwanee can also be the light rail that finally connects up the west side of Atlanta with Downtown and Midtown. I don't see why it couldn't do both, so long as you kept the train lengths appropriately short. Which could probably work fine. Particularly if you're at a 15 min headway system, again much like MARTA HRT.
Great post MattCW, thank you. Nice detailed descriptions.
I'll make up my mind to change my mind, and agree with you. I see what you're saying.
Obviously, for North Fulton and maybe I-20 east, since you have no railroad corridor there, extending the heavy rail would be appropriate. And like you agreed, you could always do new heavy rail ITP, like extend the Green Line or adding infill stations.
I'm starting to see what the potential could be, with commuter rail, where I didn't see it clearly or fully before. I think looking into this awesome Denver FasTracks system is helping. (Forgive me, I've never lived anywhere that had commuter rail.)
So let me know what you think about this. Imagine the exact Denver Fastracks model- same cars at same length, same overhead power, same station design (with park & rides), same operational frequency (15 mins), same price (and zoning model), same speed, etc. And let's look at NW Atlanta and into Cobb County, for example.
Operational frequency is where we'll get hung up, I think 15 minutes all day isn't appropriate for all lines, but I'm with you so far.
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If you started from a hypothetical "Union Station"/ MMPT hub at Five Points, where would/could the first stop be? Could you space the stations more like heavy rail spacing? So like, Centennial Park, GA Tech/Marietta St, Howell Mill, Collier Rd, Moores Mill... or would that be too frequent for commuter rail?
Really, that would be too frequent to have all of those. But going outward on each line, I would put a first station at 10th Westside*, 10th Beltline, Lenox**, Emory**, Avondale, East Point and the Airport.
*10th Westside would be reliant on new, probably elevated RoW designed to avoid the railroad version of our downtown connector and the Brookwood interchange (known as Howell Junction). These two 10th street stations would be aimed at traffic to/from Midtown so people wouldn't be forced to go all the way to the MMPT then almost double back a not insignificant distance. Ideally, they would be linked by the streetcar, but bus service could suffice if necessary. Additionally, this would be reliant on new RoW simply because there isn't room to stuff any platforms alongside the existing trackage there.
**These two stations would primarily serve traffic coming into them from the Gainesville and Athens lines respectively with local transit being the preferred means for reaching them from Atlanta unless some trains from other lines are "run-through" trains that will run through the MMPT and continue outbound on another line.
I've included both East Point and the Airport because the airport just flat deserves to be served, but it would be a long MARTA transfer so that's why I included East Point as well despite it being just one stop up and this segment being served by MARTA. The point here certainly isn't to take away traffic from MARTA, but actually funnel traffic onto MARTA by providing a convenient connection.
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I guess the question is, can commuter rail be scaled to run as a hybrid subway system like MARTA HRT does, with more stops ITP, and fewer stops OTP, and gradually more and more spacing as the line goes out? Or would commuter rail for Atlanta necessitate "express" service that stops in Downtown Atlanta, then maybe stops once at the Perimeter, then goes to OTP suburbs?
The latter is definitely ideal. That doesn't preclude multiple stops ITP, but the aim isn't to handle much of that local traffic with one exception (Vinings, see below).
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Because I like the idea of using commuter rail trains, perhaps shorter length, like one car or 2, as essentially just like a LRT system in the city, then it seamlessly merges out into a long-range system OTP.
That wouldn't really be utilizing commuter rail very well. I'm envisioning the system setup to handle 8-car trains, over 1000 person capacity per train. With the weight required of commuter rail vehicles, it is inefficient to run them short distances in short trains.
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Like, for example, in Cobb County I would definitely want to see a stop (perhaps a non-park&ride), in 'downtown' Vinings at Paces Ferry Rd. But then I also think there should be a stop (definitely a park&ride), at Cumberland Blvd @ Cumberland Pkwy (where the bus transfer center is). So that's only about a mile between.
We are in full agreement here. Vinings as I mentioned above is an exception. It's probably the only major ITP location along a railroad that doesn't also have MARTA service so a stop would be appropriate here as it adds minimal time to the trains, which have to pass here anyways.
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Then the next definite stop is downtown Smyrna, then maybe another stop or 2, then downtown Marietta right next to the square. Would be utterly perfect and awesome.
We are pretty much in agreement here. I drew this map years ago and update it every now and then. Just tonight I added the Howell Bypass which I described briefly above. https://drive.google.com/open?id=12-...bw&usp=sharing
You can see I take it all the way to Acworth, and really Cartersville isn't out of the question at only 46 miles from Atlanta. Some key features are downtown stops plus park and rides even though they aren't far from each other. A good example of this is the downtown Kennesaw stop (notice, no obvious provision for parking) and the Cobb Parkway stop. My goal was to put a station to "intercept" existing drivers. Looking at it again tonight, I could see a case for stations at Barrett Parkway, Jiles Rd, and possibly Hickory Grove @ New McEver Dr. I have also thought about a stop somewhere on the southwest side of Dobbins, but aren't really sure where.
I've done maps like these for all the commuter rail lines. I may update them and post them here.
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I just hope Georgia can figure out a deal to get these heavily used freight corridors to run passenger lines, and I don't know if that means having to lay new adjacent tracks in the RoW, or what.
New tracks will be a must, but they will be part of the existing network rather than separate as HRT by necessity would be. Most of the trackage is currently single tracked with passing sidings. Adding a full second track would dramatically increase capacity since trains could run both directions, at speed (like MARTA).
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Also, particularly at spots like Paces Ferry right there, seems to me you would need to build new bridges or tunnels for the road, to achieve grade separation with the tracks.
And I know in Gwinnett along Buford Highway, there are a lot of at-grade crossings, like at Jones Mill. I think some of those would probably need to be made fully grade separated.
Grade separation is ideal, but not a hard requirement unlike HRT which must be grade-separated now for any new installations (Chicago's CTA has some legacy public grade crossings, but even NYC, Philly, and Boston are fully grade-separated now).
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But, overall yes I absolutely do see the cost savings involved. Just basically need to buy the vehicles, and build the actually pretty simple stations. The stations aren't all that much more complicated than the Atlanta Streetcar stations. Just larger.
It's a bit more than that, there are the track upgrades mentioned above, and the necessary yard facilities (maintenance plus layover space). But yes, it is cheaper than HRT by a half or more. Denver's A-line for instance, 23 miles of service, maybe half of that is "greenfield" installation with all-new RoW to the airport, seems to come in at around $100 Million per mile. But Denver is going all out, and the electrification is a bunch of that cost too. I'm not saying Atlanta should cheap out, but there's certainly a spectrum of system startups, and Denver is on the high upper end.
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So yes, I like commuter rail now. I guess I never really thought about what it is, what it could be, how flexible and custom-tailored for our city that it potentially, hopefully could be.
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Originally Posted by primaltech
Oh, and obviously, where it runs right next to the heavy rail line, you wouldn't need to stop, that would be redundant. A stop at Doraville, a stop at Lenox, but skip Chamblee and Brookhaven which are residential suburbs anyway. And it can skip Lindbergh.
Exactly! The idea isn't to compete with MARTA, it's to complement it and funnel people onto it rather than trying to make one system do it all.
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However, it would then need to stop where MARTA rail does not go, and is needed. So, Armour, Brookwood, Atlantic Station, Northside Dr, GA Tech, etc.
I think one station at the north end of town, then relying on local transit can adequately cover all those locations.
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That way we can do 2 in 1. The same line that serves Suwanee can also be the light rail that finally connects up the west side of Atlanta with Downtown and Midtown. I don't see why it couldn't do both, so long as you kept the train lengths appropriately short. Which could probably work fine. Particularly if you're at a 15 min headway system, again much like MARTA HRT.
This is what I was talking about earlier about not trying to force one mode into the paradigm of another. Commuter rail and LRT have vastly different operational profiles that make them inappropriate to try to serve as each other. Instead, the idea is to bring people to major nodes, then connect the nodes to the last mile with local transit whether it be HRT, LRT, buses, or just good pedestrian connections.
I may be confusing things with this example, but I'll give it a shot. NYC's subway system kind of does what I'm talking about, albeit with one form of transit. They have express lines and local lines. The express lines make only a few stops while the locals make all. There's an easy (across-platform) transfer at the major stops for people to move back and forth. This is akin to the commuter train stopping at Doraville, Lenox, Atlanta, while MARTA serves Doraville, Chamblee, Brookhaven, Lenox, Lindbergh, Arts Center...etc. Same idea, just using different modes, more appropriate for the service, and over a larger geographic area.
Really, that would be too frequent to have all of those. (stops)
OK, but then, you'd need heavy rail or light rail or at least BRT, to be built right along the commuter rail, which doubles the cost. That's just where I get a little hung up with all this. Something in that medium-scale mass transit range (not slow streetcar but not express commuter rail), needs to run up to Cumberland from Midtown, anyway. Atlantic Station, Howell Mill, are screaming for MARTA stations. So, couldn't we make it this same commuter rail line that serves the morning commuters in Kennesaw?
It's why I've always admired the MARTA train. In Chamblee it's a suburban commuter rail that stops once for the whole town. In Atlanta it's an appropriately scaled urban line, that makes frequent stops, mostly urban stops with no parking. So it's just adaptable, it has really great range on the spectrum. And so I don't see why an overhead-powered surface train system, couldn't do exactly that to some degree as well. ITP, it functions as a mid-range light rail line, OTP, it functions as a long-range express commuter rail.
Plus, in addition to saving a ton of money, I believe such a hybrid system would save more people more time, because they don't have to transfer and then wait for something else to arrive. While only slowing the line down a little bit for the people who are indeed going all the way to the airport.
I totally agree with you that in terms of cost vs value, heavy rail is just not the way to go anymore. And commuter rail is the best at that. Which is one more reason why I think it should serve both needs and be both, and it would replace an LRT or HRT line rather than run potentially somewhat redundant with one.
Denver apparently seems to be doing it. 6 stops between their downtown and airport. Still only 37 minutes. As far as configuration, that seems not all that much different than Charlotte's line which is called light rail, yet this is called commuter rail, seems to me mainly just because of the vehicle involved.
So I'm just saying, why don't we ride that blurred line between light rail and commuter rail, and have a system that can do both. Also, in terms of capacity and appropriate train lengths, I'm not sure 1,000 person capacity on a double decker train makes a lot of sense for Georgia. Depending on frequency, I think one or two train cars would be just fine, with people sitting down and some people standing. Again like MARTA.
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I've included both East Point and the Airport because the airport just flat deserves to be served, but it would be a long MARTA transfer so that's why I included East Point as well despite it being just one stop up and this segment being served by MARTA. The point here certainly isn't to take away traffic from MARTA, but actually funnel traffic onto MARTA by providing a convenient connection.
Absolutely. Great idea.
BTW, your Cobb line is perfect, that's exactly the railroad route I was thinking as well (the blue line). As you know, near Atlanta Rd at the river, it would require some kind of new connection of the lines here: https://www.google.com/maps/@33.8299.../data=!3m1!1e3
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Vinings as I mentioned above is an exception. It's probably the only major ITP location along a railroad that doesn't also have MARTA service so a stop would be appropriate here as it adds minimal time to the trains, which have to pass here anyways.
Exactly.
But, I'm just thinking about other areas in ITP Fulton/DeKalb, that to me fit that description as well.
Like, a commuter line from Atlanta to Tucker and beyond. Along the way, couldn't it stop at Briarcliff, Emory, Clairmont, North Druid Hills, Northlake as well? Then it could replace the Clifton light rail line. Or it would be that very line, actually. It would be both things. Like I said, it's almost just semantics.
Then you've got these huge rapid transit gaps in town, like Atlantic Station and Brookwood. All right along the railroad corridor. So put stops there, and it functions as a 'light rail' thru there. 15 min service.
I know what you're saying with, "rely on local transit", but it just seems like we could knock out both with one thing. Especially since the local transit that's needed is an overhead-powered surface transit train along these very corridors. You know what I mean?
Now, the Chamblee, Brookhaven, Lindbergh stops aren't needed because they are already served by existing train line. Same for a stop near downtown Decatur. Definitely not needed, even if the commuter rail goes right by there. As you said, as long as you can access MARTA HRT line somewhere via a general transfer, then you can get to wherever MARTA goes.
But then the problem is in where MARTA doesn't go, and you're building a new rail transit line right along there anyway? I really think it should be both, in one. Especially since this is Georgia and we're extremely lucky if we ever get one decent transit thing. Multiple is a much more difficult thing to hope.
Yes, I agree, maybe not perfectly ideal configuration for a traditional long-range commuter rail train. But nothing's ideal, things should stay flexible. Also we should be creative and do our thing a bit differently.
Anyway, a part of it goes to the concern I was stating earlier, about not wanting 2 systems for 2 kinds of people, or demographics. It's an admittedly knee-jerk reaction to Cagle's comments, really rubbed me the wrong way.
And it's not like Atlanta has so many frequent stops everywhere. You could barely even call MARTA HRT a local service. It's basically a commuter rail service.
Let's build the commuter rail version of MARTA. I'm not saying very frequent stops, but at least maybe a few ITP stops. Rather than bypass these ITP areas that really need a rail station.
Oh, and Gwinnett County- on each of those 2 railroad lines, I'm thinking about 8 stops each, so 16 total commuter rail stops just in the county. Because you need your quaint cool little downtown stops, and your mega parking deck type stops on major county roadways in unincorporated areas between those cities.
Like, for example, in Cobb County I would definitely want to see a stop (perhaps a non-park&ride), in 'downtown' Vinings at Paces Ferry Rd. But then I also think there should be a stop (definitely a park&ride), at Cumberland Blvd @ Cumberland Pkwy (where the bus transfer center is). So that's only about a mile between.
I will tell y'all that CCT and Cobb DOT plan on moving the Cumberland Transfer Center to make bus service more efficient. Currently outbound MARTA 12 and CCT 10 buses have to use the mall road to access the station.
I will tell y'all that CCT and Cobb DOT plan on moving the Cumberland Transfer Center to make bus service more efficient. Currently outbound MARTA 12 and CCT 10 buses have to use the mall road to access the station.
Even so, I'd still put a commuter rail stop there. Since that's the only place you can for Cumberland.
The station and CTC should be on the same parcel, no more discounted transportation infrastructure.
Aye, it should.
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