MARTA to make an $8 billion pitch to change the face of Atlanta (Clayton: credit rating, shop)

[JMatl]

Originally Posted by DirkMcGirt

So there is no middle ground? MARTA's actions weren't intended to destroy the bill, but their selfish money grab had that consequence.

What load of pure BS.

The Legislature set up TSPLOST to be defeated from day one by scheduling the vote on the day of the Republican primary. Get a clue.

[DirkMcGirt]

Originally Posted by JMatl

What load of pure BS.

The Legislature set up TSPLOST to be defeated from day one by scheduling the vote on the day of the Republican primary. Get a clue.

Funny how other regions passed their versions.

But but but those evil republicans.

[JMatl]

Originally Posted by DirkMcGirt

Funny how other regions passed their versions.

But but but those evil republicans.

Not all did, but you already knew that.

And the way they set up TSPLOST to fail was evil, in mine and many others opinion. If the vote had been set for the General Election in November, we would be looking at an entirely different outcome.

The powers that be under the Gold Dome designed it to fail. Not all of us have blinders on.

[DirkMcGirt]

Originally Posted by JMatl

Not all did, but you already knew that.

And the way they set up TSPLOST to fail was evil, in mine and many others opinion. If the vote had been set for the General Election in November, we would be looking at an entirely different outcome.

The powers that be under the Gold Dome designed it to fail. Not all of us have blinders on.

So, your belief in this theory gives MARTA a pass for asking for $800 million it didn't need?

Yup... two wrongs make a right

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by DirkMcGirt

I agree, but I don't think that MARTA's 'leadership' should be given a pass for their ineptitude and selfish actions.

You're being completely unfair and unreasonable towards MARTA. Would that be because you're here to troll?

Mass transit fanboys

By that term of course you mean, people living around Atlanta who like and support more transit, don't have a ridiculous chip on their shoulder against MARTA, and spend their online time being positive and optimistic rather than trolling and unbalanced negativity just to annoy and get a rise out of people.

[sedimenjerry]

Originally Posted by DirkMcGirt

So just say it... The $800 million they pleaded for at the expense of current transportation issues weren't required.

Their unnecessary money grab helped sink the TSPLOST and any current transportation needs from being addressed. Well done MARTA.

Sure my car will eventually need new tires, but I'm not running around panhandling for money at gas stations claiming I need money for new tires when my current tires only have 2,000 miles on them.

Some of you will defend MARTA regardless of facts. Do you really think MARTA claiming a need for $800 million for existing services didn't severely hurt the TSPLOST and MARTA's image therefore screwing the region out of progress toward addressing transportation needs?

Maybe MARTA should just ask your mommy and daddy for money.

Oh this is just too funny now.
Not even gonna pretend a government entity asking for tax funding is remotely comparable to a person panhandling. Or that you keep trying to say maintenance is only needed when something is broken. I bet owning a car is fun for you. Don't get new tires until the tires pop. Don't add coolant til it's bone dry. Don't add air to the tires til the tires are fully deflated, etc. because evidently you either fix something once it's fully broken or you may as well just replace the tires after each trip.

TSplost was doomed from the beginning. There's a reason only rural areas passed it. MARTA had nothing to do with the failure in 8 other regions.

Doubt they could afford it. Only reason my parents are paying for it is because with the battery, core fee, other environmental fees and taxes the cost ends up being about as much as my weekly grad assistant salary and well, I have to eat.

[fourthwarden]

Here is the list of projects from the final project list (page 9):

• MARTA Train Control Systems Upgrade------------------------------------------------------------------------$ 4,440,000
• MARTA Elevator and Escalator Rehabilitation Program--------------------------------------------------------$ 118,700,000
• MARTA Unified Transit Communication Infrastructure---------------------------------------------------------$ 27,200,000
• MARTA Passenger Information System, Audio Visual Information System and Wayfinding----------------$ 30,500,000
• MARTA Tunnel and Platform Lighting Upgrade-----------------------------------------------------------------$ 28,000,000
• MARTA Tunnel Ventilation Rehabilitation------------------------------------------------------------------------$ 700,000
• MARTA Electrical Power Rehabilitation--------------------------------------------------------------------------$ 354,400,000
• MARTA Track Rehabilitation--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------$ 5,600,000
• MARTA Aerial Structure Rehabilitation--------------------------------------------------------------------------$ 92,700,000
• MARTA Airport Station Improvements--------------------------------------------------------------------------$ 7,160,000

The total shown is ~$700 Million.

All of these seem like perfectly reasonable funding requests. Non of them are necessarily life threatening, but do need to be taken care of.

Now, let's see. Here are the projects that showed up as worked/working projects:

Train Control and SCADA Systems Upgrade
Commdex Awarded Contract for MARTA Upgrade

Elevator Escalator Rehabilitation Program and Main (Issue for bids)

Tunnel Ventilation System Rehabilitation and Renewal (Issue for bids)
Tunnel Ventilation System Rehabilitation and Renewal 2013 Project Manual

Originally Posted by DirkMcGirt

So there is no middle ground? MARTA's actions weren't intended to destroy the bill, but their selfish money grab had that consequence.

For one who chastises others about absolutes, you see pretty firm in your 2 options. You have said that there are only two things that the requested $800 Mil. could be:

1. It was unnecessary and thus it was a negative impact to the TSPLOST vote
or
2. It was necessary, and thus MARTA is now hiding its maintenance woes and is unsafe.

There is, of course, the third, and far more likely option:

3. MARTA put projects on the list that they felt needed addressing in the not too distant future. The system is not currently unsafe, nor would it be if those projects weren't immediately funded, but it would be better to take care of them sooner rather than later since it will only be more expensive as time goes on. MARTA, not having access to full funding, tackles what projects it can in the mean time.

There is NO conspiracy surrounding MARTA's request for maintenance funding in 2012. There is no cover up for an unsafe system. There are still projects to be taken care of, yes, but they do not pose ANY danger to current passengers.

After Kieth Parker took control of the system, which was AFTER the TSPLOST, the budget surplus that he brought MARTA into was enough to fund some of the projects. I suspect we will see more and more of the lower-cost projects come online as time goes on, while other projects are also saved for. MARTA is handling what it can, one step at a time.

If you have HARD evidence to the contrary, then please show it, but until then try to keep your baseless accusations at bay.


Of course, ALL OF THIS is off-topic, and only serves to remove from the discussion at hand. If you have legitimate concerns, START A NEW THREAD and discuss them there. Otherwise, kindly STAY ON TOPIC.

[DirkMcGirt]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

post

So, we agree. MARTA didn't really need the money and the money could've been slated toward solving real transportation problems in the region. They 'wanted' the money for future repairs but they weren't really emergent repairs as they were advertised. They wanted their slice of the pie and without transportation solving problems queued up, they figured they reach for $700 million in non-emergent repair money.

You can just say you agree with me when I'm right. That is okay to do.

[jsvh]

No more than highways or any other government programs "needs money". Give it up Dirk.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by DirkMcGirt

So, we agree. MARTA didn't really need the money and the money could've been slated toward solving real transportation problems in the region. They 'wanted' the money for future repairs but they weren't really emergent repairs as they were advertised. They wanted their slice of the pie and without transportation solving problems queued up, they figured they reach for $700 million in non-emergent repair money.

You can just say you agree with me when I'm right. That is okay to do.

Don't put words in my mouth. No, I don't agree with you. They are/were needed projects; they need to get done at one point or the other. They are, and will be 'real transportation problems', just not by your personal definitions. I could personally believe that the repair of an aged interstate intersection isn't a problem compared to building a new BRT route, but that wouldn't make the aged intersection any less of a problem, nor less existent. Capital expansions, repairs, and upgrades are time dependent in that they only get more costly the longer you let them go. It will ultimately cost us more for these projects in the long run than it would have at the time. I also don't agree with you that not listing these projects would have magically made the difference on that vote.

Your problem here is that you're assuming that since something isn't immediately necessary, that it isn't needed. This is pointed out over and over and over in the discussion at large. Obviously MARTA deems them needed since, as I pointed out above, MARTA is taking them on, just at a much slower pace than they would have with full funding.

You should be happy that MARTA was trying to get them handled at the time, since it would save money in the long run. Instead, you're moaning about a hypothetical situation and conspiracy theories.