Atlanta's Traffic Woes Trace Back To Railroads, Land Lotteries (Dunwoody: houses, neighborhood)

[skbl17]

The problem with building something like a second beltway is the fact that Cherokee and Forsyth counties have very loud NIMBYs, and they are represented by very powerful state legislators. If you want an Outer Perimeter, you'll have to convince GDOT, the General Assembly, and the Governor that going through the trouble of funding an Outer Perimeter would provide more pros to metro Atlanta thru traffic than cons, while sidestepping the NIMBY groups that would vehemently oppose such an idea.

The fact is, metro Atlanta tends to be very NIMBYish when it comes to freeways. Many of the proposed projects intown and to the north have been cancelled because of well-organized freeway revolts. I don't think the political will exists in the state government to challenge NIMBY groups on constructing new freeways.

- skbl17

[bu2]

Originally Posted by skbl17

The problem with building something like a second beltway is the fact that Cherokee and Forsyth counties have very loud NIMBYs, and they are represented by very powerful state legislators. If you want an Outer Perimeter, you'll have to convince GDOT, the General Assembly, and the Governor that going through the trouble of funding an Outer Perimeter would provide more pros to metro Atlanta thru traffic than cons, while sidestepping the NIMBY groups that would vehemently oppose such an idea.

The fact is, metro Atlanta tends to be very NIMBYish when it comes to freeways. Many of the proposed projects intown and to the north have been cancelled because of well-organized freeway revolts. I don't think the political will exists in the state government to challenge NIMBY groups on constructing new freeways.

- skbl17

I'd start with a western beltway heading south from Cartersville and an eastern beltway heading south from Gwinnet meeting near the Atlanta Motor Speedway. Let the north figure out they need it after the other parts are built.

[cwkimbro]

Well I fear the problem we will have with the northern "arc" is at this point any hope to build such a thing without costly buying and building through neighborhoods, over lakes, and along more expensive hillier alignments is gone.

The only place that protected the alignment was Gwinnett, which is not re-purposing the alignment to make a super arterial freeway in place of upgrading multiple other alignments with no access management.

[RedClear55]

Wouldn't creating an outer beltway encourage sprawl? Besides, a lot of folks moved out there for the ex-urban look and feel.

What percentage of traffic is local versus passers-through? Perhaps if we had better interstate rail transit, it would take cars off the roads. Especially for those who are now coming to Atlanta as a destination.

Back to the original topic, it's interesting how Atlanta's founding as a railroad terminus has been lost to the automobile. It would be neat to see a resurgence of our RxR heritage through building a commuter rail system using the existing lines.

Perhaps instead of building a beltway for automobiles, one should be built for rail shipping lines, potentially freeing up the existing infrastructure to support a commuter focused system.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by RedClear55

Wouldn't creating an outer beltway encourage sprawl? Besides, a lot of folks moved out there for the ex-urban look and feel.

What percentage of traffic is local versus passers-through? Perhaps if we had better interstate rail transit, it would take cars off the roads. Especially for those who are now coming to Atlanta as a destination.

Back to the original topic, it's interesting how Atlanta's founding as a railroad terminus has been lost to the automobile. It would be neat to see a resurgence of our RxR heritage through building a commuter rail system using the existing lines.

Perhaps instead of building a beltway for automobiles, one should be built for rail shipping lines, potentially freeing up the existing infrastructure to support a commuter focused system.

I-75 is one of the busiest corridors in the country. It would be really nice to get a lot of those through trucks off I-285. Its packed with 18 wheelers during rush hours. And its really difficult to get around Atlanta and not go through town because of the radial nature of our streets and freeways. There's a real need now for a 2nd beltway. Because sprawl has already happened. And it is continuing to happen. I do think they should fight some of the NIMBY battles and serve existing development as opposed to having it built really far out.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by RedClear55

Wouldn't creating an outer beltway encourage sprawl? Besides, a lot of folks moved out there for the ex-urban look and feel.

What percentage of traffic is local versus passers-through? Perhaps if we had better interstate rail transit, it would take cars off the roads. Especially for those who are now coming to Atlanta as a destination.

Back to the original topic, it's interesting how Atlanta's founding as a railroad terminus has been lost to the automobile. It would be neat to see a resurgence of our RxR heritage through building a commuter rail system using the existing lines.

Perhaps instead of building a beltway for automobiles, one should be built for rail shipping lines, potentially freeing up the existing infrastructure to support a commuter focused system.

How you build it influences how much development it encourages. If you build it Texas style with exits every mile and frontage roads, it tends to become a destination for development instead of a transportation corridor between development. If you had a toll road with exits every 2 to 4 miles and access from existing arterial roads you would have different results.

(note: the Texas Department of Transportation realized the impact of frontage roads and voted to not build them on any new freeways about 10 years ago, but that got overruled by politics. Developers love frontage roads).

[DaBurgh]

We're in the Piedmont, more sprawl inevitable.

When you look at a map of the Southeast and see the major interstates cross-cross through a metro of 6 million, its almost comical not to see an outer loop around Atlanta.

[JMatl]

Originally Posted by DaBurgh

We're in the Piedmont, more sprawl inevitable.

When you look at a map of the Southeast and see the major interstates cross-cross through a metro of 6 million, its almost comical not to see an outer loop around Atlanta.

Yeah, we really do need one I'm afraid. The massive amount of truck and pass-through traffic needs to be diverted away from the core of the Metro.

I'm really pretty much convinced that the ship has sailed on the 'Northern Arc" portion, though. As others have mentioned, with the exception of Gwinnett the route has already been developed and is now lined with neighborhoods and very hardcore NIMBY's. And I for one have zero trust in the State to not create a Mountain-devouring sprawl machine on this particular segment, but we truly need at the minimum West and East bypasses as bu2 suggested. A big boost in our freight rail capacity would also help.

[cqholt]

Talk about waiting decades, building a new outer loop would take decades to complete and cost billions.

[chiatldal]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

I'm completely for expanding transit.

I just think that it is only PART of the solution. We can't just sit here and handicap ourselves, waiting to expand transit because:

1) It may never happen
2) It may take decades to happen
3) If it does happen, it needs other projects to help it solve the problem

The fact is, we need more capacity on the roads.

And I'm sick of the argument that more capacity brings more traffic. That's just like if you had a starving population and you refused to plant more food because if you have more food, that means more people will have babies, and then you'll have even more mouths to feed. It's a ridiculous argument, more capacity is a part of reducing congestion, just like more food helps ease starvation.

This isn't rocket science, people.

Population increasing = doesn't not equal significant more roads need to built,...... furthermore Atlanta is not gridded there very little Atlanta can do with roads. Many roads and freeways have been blocked because it destroy so much develop already establish. Some areas do need road expansion but that's putting a band aid on a large wound.

Atlanta freeway revolts

To Add to your analogy or metaphor it's giving or growing cocoa and growing corn syrup for junk foods instead of vegetable and healthy options. Road encourage sprawl, growth doesn't have to be sprawl, sprawl development increase dependency on a car which increase traffic.

The Goal of Transportation is to get from A to B, if B wasn't developed so far away from A their would be less issues in the first place. So the logical response is to plan growth itself better. Development and Zoning is just as much apart of transportation as roads and rail lines.

This is why the ARC is encouraging

Lifelong Communities

Transit Oriented Development | Atlanta Regional Commission

Livable Centers Initiative | atlantaregional.com

Sprawling is going to happen, and people are obliviously going to use cars but rate of sprawl can be slowed and necessary of traveling can be decrease.

By increasing mix use communities. Certain areas in Metro Atlanta not just in the city but corridors, Regional center, and town centers though out the metro. This is also act of looking at transportation.