Clifton Corridor Route Alternatives (Decatur, North Decatur: neighborhood, trains, yard)

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by bu2

I don't think you are understanding. Look at the map. Emory Point is the only stop that would be different if they stayed on the RR corridor behind the CDC instead of Clifton Road in front of CDC. They would serve CDC equally well with either place for a stop. And with a walkway, it would be less than a 1/4 mile walk from Emory Point. And there's nothing behind Emory Point. Beyond that, they are back on the RR ROW elevated, in tunnel or at grade in exclusive ROW until Scott St.

I agree that is not a bad option, the problem is that CSX doesn't want to give up any of their right of way. That is why the section from Armor Yard to Sage Hill is being considered as a tunnel.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by jsvh

I agree that is not a bad option, the problem is that CSX doesn't want to give up any of their right of way. That is why the section from Armor Yard to Sage Hill is being considered as a tunnel.

Where have you heard that? That seems strange as they are doing at grade it near Candler Lake where the track crosses Clifton Road. And the CDC and/or Emory have vacant land adjacent to the tracks.

I thought the reason for the tunnel was a combination of the grade and the LaVista Park neighborhood not wanting to see it (it is being run on the north side of the tracks behind the residential area).

[jeoff]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Using the Clifton Corridor, allows the line to reach the maximum number of potential riders. I do not think this line is intended to be a thru route for people using the westbound blue line to northboud red/gold lines. This is meant to get riders from the north and east, to Emory/CDC and using the Clifton Rd corridor allows stations to be in the middle of the area.

Originally Posted by bu2

I don't think you are understanding. Look at the map. Emory Point is the only stop that would be different if they stayed on the RR corridor behind the CDC instead of Clifton Road in front of CDC. They would serve CDC equally well with either place for a stop. And with a walkway, it would be less than a 1/4 mile walk from Emory Point. And there's nothing behind Emory Point. Beyond that, they are back on the RR ROW elevated, in tunnel or at grade in exclusive ROW until Scott St.

Yes, the RR is the south-western border of the CDC, and cuts through Emory (there is even a train depot that is still there currently being used as a restaurant). The plan that goes further down Clifton does stop at Emory Hospital, but the most significant advantage to the other plan is its proximity to Emory Point --which would still be reasonably close if you could use the RR ROW (and you could be sure that both Emory and Emory Point would make sure that there would be shuttle stops at the station). But, as someone stated CSX won't budge on the ROW--and Emory Point is a big development. I just hope they know what they are doing, and this does not make CDC gridlock too much worse. (Just, the Emory construction can occasionally extend 10 minute drive down Clifton to almost an hour--hate to think what doing serious work on Clifton could do to gridlock.)

[UrbanConquistador]

So, are they proposing the "At-Grade" sections to operate in mixed traffic with cars?

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by bu2

Where have you heard that? That seems strange as they are doing at grade it near Candler Lake where the track crosses Clifton Road. And the CDC and/or Emory have vacant land adjacent to the tracks.

I thought the reason for the tunnel was a combination of the grade and the LaVista Park neighborhood not wanting to see it (it is being run on the north side of the tracks behind the residential area).

It is in the original link / report I put up. They have the actual emails with CSX in the appendix if you want to read them.

But yes, the neighborhoods are part of the reason for the tunnel too, mostly that they don't want to lose their yards to get the ROW for LRT.

[cqholt]

North Decatur makes no sense for single family. I don't know how those people get out of their driveways in the morning. Many of the houses look a little neglected. That would be a logical place to buy up houses and put it at-grade-IF-the grade allowed it. Its hilly over there.

I am referring to running the rail along the surface, but having at-grade crossings, with gates, where roads cross the tracks. That way the trains are not in the traffic and cars cannot block the train if it needs to cut across the road.

I don't think you are understanding. Look at the map. Emory Point is the only stop that would be different if they stayed on the RR corridor behind the CDC instead of Clifton Road in front of CDC. They would serve CDC equally well with either place for a stop. And with a walkway, it would be less than a 1/4 mile walk from Emory Point. And there's nothing behind Emory Point. Beyond that, they are back on the RR ROW elevated, in tunnel or at grade in exclusive ROW until Scott St.

No, if they used the RR ROW, CDC/Emory Point and Emory Rollins would not be there, instead the rail would run along the back of the intended area it is suppose to serve. People already complain about walking 1/2 mile, they would reject this line if they had to walk thru campus to get to areas on the east side of Clifton Rd.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by Frankster87

So, are they proposing the "At-Grade" sections to operate in mixed traffic with cars?

Basically, they don't know yet. These are simply routing options for service areas.

From page 28 of the Clifton Corridor Phase 2 Environmental Review and Project Planning Scoping Summary Report:

Summary of Comments: Several comments were noted regarding potential impact to roadways in the Clifton Corridor that already experience high congestion. Most commenters cited Clifton and North Decatur Roads and, specifically, the Clairmont Road intersection as particularly problematic. Further, most fear that ‘road diet’ plans, or reducing the number of vehicular traffic lanes will further exacerbate these issues. More
information was desired regarding how light-rail will be incorporated into existing roadway rights-of-way.

Response:

Traffic studies and engineering efforts are underway and will evaluate the impact instreet LRT operations may have for various track configurations – center/median alignment, curb alignment, and side/lateral alignment. Analyses will be conducted for LRT operations in exclusive LRT-only lanes or in mixed traffic with other vehicles.

‘Road diets’ and other streetscape plans fall under the purview of the local governments and GDOT; however, the DEIS will also consider all planned traffic improvements, and will work with local governments and GDOT to confirm transportation plans are in harmony and do not adversely affect traffic. Traffic analysis will also address local circulation and access, on-street parking, pedestrian facilities and bicycle routes.

Traffic analysis will also be conducted for Haygood Drive, as an alternative or complementary facility to accommodate traffic in the Emory area and to facilitate movements from N. Decatur Road to the CDC/Emory Point area.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by cqholt

I am referring to running the rail along the surface, but having at-grade crossings, with gates, where roads cross the tracks. That way the trains are not in the traffic and cars cannot block the train if it needs to cut across the road.

No, if they used the RR ROW, CDC/Emory Point and Emory Rollins would not be there, instead the rail would run along the back of the intended area it is suppose to serve. People already complain about walking 1/2 mile, they would reject this line if they had to walk thru campus to get to areas on the east side of Clifton Rd.

The Emory Rollins would be in almost an identical place. As I said, Emory Point would be less than 1/4 mile away. The CDC stop would simply require a sidewalk running by the CDC property.

[tikigod311]

Originally Posted by Frankster87

So, are they proposing the "At-Grade" sections to operate in mixed traffic with cars?

If so, that would be an asinine plan.

We need to work out some agreements with the RRs for so many projects around town. They got a lot of their land via eminent domain and the powers of the government, some cooperation should be expected. By no means do I think we should get in their way too much, but more is possible.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Basically, they don't know yet. These are simply routing options for service areas.

From page 28 of the Clifton Corridor Phase 2 Environmental Review and Project Planning Scoping Summary Report:

They don't need to waste a lot of money on studies. Just drive it every day for a week like I do and they would know that any impairment is unacceptable.

In Houston some were concerned that putting light rail down Fannin in the median would seriously harm traffic flow. They didn't even reduce any lanes, but ran it down the median and ran with traffic in the left turn lanes. It was a disaster and ground traffic to a halt. Now Houston had a plan. They built two bridges to provide two alternate routes to Fannin and things are ok now. But it was a mess until they built those bridges. MARTA has no intention of creating any alternatives. And Clifton, North Decatur, Clairmont and Scott have far worse traffic than Fannin did before rail in Houston.