Urban Institute predicts MASSIVE growth for Atlanta through 2030

[fermie125]

Originally Posted by cqholt

No, we can only densify. We cannot keep on building further out, but instead adapt the suburbs and densfiy them were appropriate. Also, encourage more infill along projects like the BeltLine, reduce crime and improve schools in west and SW Atlanta to make those areas desirable.

Who says we can't sprawl further? We've done it in the past and the past is the best predictor of the future. There are no natural boundaries, no mountains, no oceans. As the exurbs begin to develop the outer ring of cities (Buford, Cumming, Canton, Cartersville, Dallas, Villa Rica, Newnan, McDonough, Covington) will urbanize and become major employment centers just as Kennesaw, Alpharetta, and Duluth are today. This is how it has happened in the past so there is little reason to expect it won't happen in the future. In the future Atlanta will both densify and sprawl further.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by fermie125

Who says we can't sprawl further? We've done it in the past and the past is the best predictor of the future. There are no natural boundaries, no mountains, no oceans. As the exurbs begin to develop the outer ring of cities (Buford, Cumming, Canton, Cartersville, Dallas, Villa Rica, Newnan, McDonough, Covington) will urbanize and become major employment centers just as Kennesaw, Alpharetta, and Duluth are today. This is how it has happened in the past so there is little reason to expect it won't happen in the future. In the future Atlanta will both densify and sprawl further.

Why would we want to sprawl further? Loss of farmland, natural habitat, etc.

[fermie125]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Why would we want to sprawl further? Loss of farmland, natural habitat, etc.

So you want Atlanta to become like Portland? Containing all development inside an imaginary boundary serves to increase housing costs as land becomes a finite commodity. "Sprawl" (aka "spreading out") serves to counter the negative effects of fixed development zones. One of Metro Atlanta's greatest virtues is its affordability in a top 10 metro area. And never mind the fact that restricting development to only certain areas is borderline communist in nature. Private property rights are essential to any free society.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by fermie125

So you want Atlanta to become like Portland? Containing all development inside an imaginary boundary serves to increase housing costs as land becomes a finite commodity. "Sprawl" (aka "spreading out") serves to counter the negative effects of fixed development zones. One of Metro Atlanta's greatest virtues is its affordability in a top 10 metro area. And never mind the fact that restricting development to only certain areas is borderline communist in nature. Private property rights are essential to any free society.

Yes, that would be ideal. It is not communist, but regional planning or is that Agenda 21?

[skbl17]

You see...I don't really think Atlanta can solve its sprawl problem. The problems I see is that metro Atlanta is growing in size and population, but our transportation network isn't keeping up thanks to political expediency and opportunism, NIMBYism, the lack of will to invest in infrastructure ("These roads and rail lines sound good, but why would it take $5 billion? Can't they do it for free? I don't want to pay more taxes!"), and the metro's good old brand of political fedualism preventing the creation of a solid, cohesive transportation plan (see the 2012 T-SPLOST).

In my view, that's a disgraceful combination of attributes for a so-called "world-class" metro to have. It's good to grow, but from my perspective, we've been seeing the growth without investing in it.

- skbl17

[arjay57]

I don't think "sprawl" is necessarily a problem.

Cities grow and its residents are going to spread out. Some may be okay with being packed in like sardines but most are gong to want some elbow room.

We are fortunate to have it and that has been a huge factor in making the ATL a major city.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I don't think "sprawl" is necessarily a problem.

Cities grow and its residents are going to spread out. Some may be okay with being packed in like sardines but most are gong to want some elbow room.

We are fortunate to have it and that has been a huge factor in making the ATL a major city.

But there comes a point when loss of farmland, wildlife habitat, and longer commutes effects the metro. Our sprawl is what causes our air pollution, which negatively effects everyone. Our car-centric design has made it tough for older people and those who cannot afford cars to easily get around the metro.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by cqholt

But there comes a point when loss of farmland, wildlife habitat, and longer commutes effects the metro. Our sprawl is what causes our air pollution, which negatively effects everyone. Our car-centric design has made it tough for older people and those who cannot afford cars to easily get around the metro.

We've got pretty decent mass transit in our most heavily populated areas, although I wouldn't mind seeing the bus system beefed up.

That could be done immediately with far less capital cost than rail lines. Buses give you much greater penetration into the community, last mile connectivity and more flexibility.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by arjay57

We've got pretty decent mass transit in our most heavily populated areas, although I wouldn't mind seeing the bus system beefed up.

That could be done immediately with far less capital cost than rail lines. Buses give you much greater penetration into the community, last mile connectivity and more flexibility.

For it to be done right, the buses must have their own lane and signal priority, but I do agree BRT is a worthy investment in lower density areas.
Bus flexibility is what separates it from being an economic investment like rail-based transit, except for BRT. Developers are less likely to invest in an area served by local buses because the route can change easily, while rail shows a sign of long term investment.