MARTA Upgrades (Berlin: hotel, neighborhood, litigation)

[fourthwarden]

Neat. I didn't know Avondale TOD was breaking ground today. Oh well, that's 2 of 4 so far, with Chamblee up to bat.


Here's the webpage for the Xcelsior Electric Buses. Some promotional images on how it would work:

[primaltech]

It would be so cool if they could do rechargeable battery powered trains. Remove the need for overhead wires, third rail, and fuel. They could just charge up every night or whatever, and run in shifts.

Then you could save tons of cost on new heavy rail lines, with at-grade road crossings.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Neat. I didn't know Avondale TOD was breaking ground today. Oh well, that's 2 of 4 so far, with Chamblee up to bat.


Here's the webpage for the Xcelsior Electric Buses. Some promotional images on how it would work:

So it is like a trolley-bus (which used to run in Atlanta and a lot more cities) except it can also on batteries too? Nice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolleybus

[MattCW]

Originally Posted by primaltech

It would be so cool if they could do rechargeable battery powered trains. Remove the need for overhead wires, third rail, and fuel. They could just charge up every night or whatever, and run in shifts.

Then you could save tons of cost on new heavy rail lines, with at-grade road crossings.

I don't think the third rail is the issue with the grade crossings, I'm pretty sure it's the crash standards.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by primaltech

It would be so cool if they could do rechargeable battery powered trains. Remove the need for overhead wires, third rail, and fuel. They could just charge up every night or whatever, and run in shifts.

Then you could save tons of cost on new heavy rail lines, with at-grade road crossings.

What would the costs to install the charging stations, substations to power the hubs, etc. be compared to extending existing technology with decades of knowledge and training on repair ?

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by MattCW

I don't think the third rail is the issue with the grade crossings, I'm pretty sure it's the crash standards.

CTA has at-grade crossings on the Brown Line

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWHCeS8EtWo

[primaltech]

I always thought that the third rail was the main driver of the need for full grade separation from roads, which in turn is the main driver of the high cost of potential HRT expansion. But maybe I'm wrong, I dunno.

If the streetcar ran on battery, it would be so much more visually attractive, and expansion construction would maybe involve at least a little bit less time and cost, because no need for power poles and wires.

[MattCW]

The CTA is a legacy system. We discussed it at length in the previous thread. The LIRR and MNRR are both third rail systems which are planning expansions and no one is batting an eye at their grade crossings.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

MARTA has been looking at possibly using electric buses. The website for the Proterra Catalyst (the bus that was demonstrated) says that the buses can be charged within 10min, which would actually make a decent amount of sense for the buses used as spokes from rail stations.

Bus pulls in, charges for 5-10 min while passengers load, then leaves, either ending its route at another rail-station, or another transit station, or even just a charging station at the bus' terminal stop. It charges for another 5-10 min, if even needed, then returns to its starting location.

I used their calculator on their website, looking at the 16 Nobel as an example. ~9 Miles, 19 daily trips per bus, 40min travel time, 20 min dwell time = $415,000 in savings to CNG (so they say). These buses are ~$1 Mil. a pop, but, when you include the lifetime savings, come close to the $572,000 of a new New-Flyer 40ft Excelsior bus. In fact, it's cheaper to buy the electric buses in the long run (~$428,000 with lifetime savings, assuming they're accurate)

As a side note, X-Flyer makes an electric version of its 40ft buses that work in a similar way, but use similar bodies / platform designs as a chunk of the existing fleet.

So, the problem, as it usually is, is the start-up cost. It's more expensive upfront to buy the buses and convert / add extra facilities for charging, but saves money over time.

Why not go ahead and get 100 of these things for starters adn put them on the road ASAP? Assuming they meet expectations we can get 200 more.

This will a huge and immediate boost to mass transit in Atlanta and will start providing that last mile connectivity that everyone craves.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Why not go ahead and get 100 of these things for starters adn put them on the road ASAP? Assuming they meet expectations we can get 200 more.

This will a huge and immediate boost to mass transit in Atlanta and will start providing that last mile connectivity that everyone craves.

That's not how local government works. First there must be RFB, then RFP, etc. Then maintenance staff has to look for additional training for the new technology.
How would E-buses be any different from our new fleet of CNG for last mile connection? If the routes are still windy and long headways, few demand riders will ride.