MARTA unveils its dream project list for November Referendum (Atlanta: versus, rated)

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Things I like here:

Every sign, of every route? Wow.

Regardless, great stuff. Show the route #(s), schedules, all that info. Do what the MARTA Army did, in an official way.


All I want to know is, will this be high enough frequency for me to be able to use it when I want to use it. And, will this pick me up at the Cumberland Transfer Center and take me straight and direct to Arts Center Station via the 75 HOV lanes from Akers Mill to Northside Dr. If so, awesome.



Really? That last part sounds like a massively expensive GDOT project, and at a glance I don't know how they'd do it. But if true, that's totally awesome.



I would assume that's what will happen, otherwise not much point to it. Well, except for not having to worry about parking.

Also, I hope it lets out right at the stadium. That would be cool.

From the meetings I remember, the bus drop off will not be in a priority spot, but more an afterthought. If memory serves me correctly, it will be close to Circle 75 and Windy Ridge. Also, there was no talk of dedicated lanes.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Because your car (or a bus) cannot carry 195 passengers or operate on the narrow dedicated RoW of the Beltline. Plus your car will take up parking space where ever you try to take it.

LRT is very versatile and high-capacity that other transportation options cannot match. Nothing else can carry so many and operate a continuous route on both narrow dedicated RoW and surface level mixed in with people / traffic.

That ability to do both is a huge asset to why this should be expanded. Dedicated RoW should be done wherever possible, but many pieces / connections will still make sense to share with other modes.

Well you can add as many buses as you want to get the capacity. And an articulated bus can probably carry 120. There's no guarantee you will even need that many.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by bu2

Well you can add as many buses as you want to get the capacity. And an articulated bus can probably carry 120. There's no guarantee you will even need that many.

Adding buses means adding drivers and the benefits that an extra employee comes with.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by bu2

Well you can add as many buses as you want to get the capacity. And an articulated bus can probably carry 120. There's no guarantee you will even need that many.

Yes, but they cannot operate in as narrow of a RoW as LRT nor do they have the same appeal / attraction.

These lines should also be able to scale up. If they need to increase capacity over 195 they can start joining trains together to double the capacity.

Even today, MARTA rail costs less per passenger to run than MARTA bus. You will get a lot of economies of scale over busses once the LRT system is fully online too.

Then of course there is the fact that there is just not a reasonable way to run busses on the Beltline.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by bu2

Well you can add as many buses as you want to get the capacity. And an articulated bus can probably carry 120. There's no guarantee you will even need that many.

And each bus requires another driver. The S70 streetcars / light rail vehicles that Atlanta got can carry 195 passengers. So, you pay more in the long-run for more drivers, more vehicles, and the shorter-lives of those vehicles.

In addition, BRT, by nature of the vehicles, requires wider right of way than rail. BRT would have required wider right of way than HRT along the Connect 400 corridor, which, in the narrow way that the BeltLine runs through, is a real, tangible problem.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

And each bus requires another driver. The S70 streetcars / light rail vehicles that Atlanta got can carry 195 passengers. So, you pay more in the long-run for more drivers, more vehicles, and the shorter-lives of those vehicles.

In addition, BRT, by nature of the vehicles, requires wider right of way than rail. BRT would have required wider right of way than HRT along the Connect 400 corridor, which, in the narrow way that the BeltLine runs through, is a real, tangible problem.

The width of a regular traffic lane isn't that much.

And you have to have the volume for it to make sense to have rail. A bus may be plenty.
And capital costs are dramatically more for rail.
Buses are also vastly more flexible for changing to meet changes in where people need to go.

There are very limited circumstances where rail makes more sense.

[tikigod311]

Originally Posted by bu2

I think its good to get outside 285.

It's a nice thought, but it is virtually meaningless considering traffic is not an issue on MLK. For the cost, there is very little benefit. I haven't been able to track down estimated costs per project, but I recall seeing this at one point and this is either the most expensive project or one of the most expensive projects. The cost to benefit ratio is insanely low. Plus, I'm not sure if the station is even going to be OTP. This needs to be taken off the list w/ funds redirected to something useful.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by tikigod311

It's a nice thought, but it is virtually meaningless considering traffic is not an issue on MLK. For the cost, there is very little benefit. I haven't been able to track down estimated costs per project, but I recall seeing this at one point and this is either the most expensive project or one of the most expensive projects. The cost to benefit ratio is insanely low. Plus, I'm not sure if the station is even going to be OTP. This needs to be taken off the list w/ funds redirected to something useful.

The 285/20 intersection is a bottleneck. Getting it outside 285 helps those who use 20 to commute but live outside 285. It would be better if it went to Charlie Brown Airport or 6 Flags (which is in Cobb County). As it currently exists, it will get very little ridership from those who live outside 285.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by cqholt

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1o2...Po&usp=sharing

Sweet! Thanks!

[tikigod311]

Originally Posted by bu2

The 285/20 intersection is a bottleneck. Getting it outside 285 helps those who use 20 to commute but live outside 285. It would be better if it went to Charlie Brown Airport or 6 Flags (which is in Cobb County). As it currently exists, it will get very little ridership from those who live outside 285.

Once you get to where the MLK station would be, you would be less than a few minutes to the current terminus, with no bottlenecks in-between. Just because it sounds nice to have a station at or outside of 285 does not justify the over 500 million in cost (per martamenu.com). This brings criminally little to the table compared to other projects around the same cost.

BTW, per martamenu, this is the single most expensive project currently being considered. wow