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Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
10,351 posts, read 8,572,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasir
I can tell you very well what a disadvataged background is, and it has nothing to do wiuth personal choice or attempting to be "the next rap star" or top athlete.
Disadvantaged backgrounds have these things in common: poverty, high rates of violence, poor educational system, under-funding of education systems, limited opportunities for gainful employment, limited access to neccessary preventive health services including behavioral health, households that effectively have no parenting model or caregiver due to substance abuse.
Children who grow up in these environments have an extremely hard time overcoming these situations that they were born into.
Let me repeat: children who are born and raised in these environments have an extremely hard time overcoming these situations and thus avoiding being part of the cycle. They have external and internal obstacles to overcome and almost zero help from the community, from family, from society.
These areas, in addition to the factors I have listed, have very little political support, little community support, and very little support from the private sector. No opportunities and very little chance at advancement, hence disadvantaged.
I know not only from educating myself about this, but because I am one of the lucky ones who managed to survive this type of environment.
I grew up in a notorious area that had headlines splash across local and national newspaper weekly: bodies dismembered, shooting massacres, mob and drug turf wars. I watched 2 people get killed, was shot in the back, was attempted to be run down, outlived many of my friends by age 17 ... and I was an innocent bystander.
Before you think I was ever part of the problem, I was not. I never sold a drug, never robbed anyone or anything. I worked as a gofer for 2 years at age 12, became a dishwasher at age 14. My mother was attacked and disabled that same year and I dropped out of high school and a local college program to care for her. I was actually considered quite intelligent, and featured in our largest newspaper for my volunteer activities. This was all by age 21. Oh yes, I also wrote for the same newspaper.
But I only just earned my bachelor degree in 2013 at age 41 (after having started it when I was 20). Two decades!!! Why? Prison interruption, maybe? Nope. Because the external and internal obstacles I spoke of are lifelong. Every time I tried to make something better of myself, someone was shutting the door in my face because I did not fit the mold they were looking for, or my grades just were not good enough. My character and my determination meant nothing to the Powers That Be, and meanwhile I still had a family to care for.
Sorry this post is long but as you can see I am passioante about this. Too many people simply do not understand the obstacles most impoverished people face. Many of us are working hard to excel, to advance, and we are blocked.
Hope you now understand what a disadvantaged background is and its ramifications.
Since you have actually lived this and succeeded, In your opinion how can we change this?
I would expect this out of College Park. That is why I won't live there. I could live there, but that kind of crap is just too much of a risk. East Point, forget it.
Anyway, this is the way I view the gun issue. Criminals couldn't care less about any laws. This is not so much a gun problem. This is a criminal issue. This is an anger issue. This is an issue of people not valuing life. BTW, Georgia has the death penalty. It will use it. Doesn't stop murders from taking place. Minnesota, Wisconsin, neither have the death penalty. Low murder rate.
Much like any other city, East Point and College Park have more dangerous but also have very nice, quiet, beautiful areas too that don't have that same criminal element. To write any city off as terrible across the board is just foolish. Every city/town has many different neighborhoods...I have never understood the tendency of some Atlantans to lump all of EP and CP into one big lump of ghetto. It's ridiculous.
Just as I suspected, these murders were in the vicinity of Old National Highway...which is in the College Park "area" - not in the 10 square miles of College Park city limits. Much like Decatur is a very nice/desirable town but has very sketchy/more dangerous areas that are part of its mailing area, College Park has a large mailing area that people refer to generally as College Park. The town is the historic downtown and Woodward Academy, with beautiful tree-lines streets and very nice homes surrounding it - far from the dangerous areas where these murders occurred.
I believe black Americans decendents of slaves shouldn't be blamed for anything we do but that's a whole other topic.
All people should take responsibility for their actions unless they are mentally incapable of doing so. I absolutely hate to hear anyone say something like this...are we not strong or smart enough to take care of ourselves without blaming others for our issues? Black people around the world have gotten the short end of the stick in many situations, but we have enough opportunities in 2016 to stop passing the buck and take some personal responsibility.
Since you have actually lived this and succeeded, In your opinion how can we change this?
Aslowdodge, it is very difficukt, but not impossible. I will not even begin to claim to have all the answers to this problem, but I do have ideas, some of which I hope to implement in a community program back home one day.
Generally speaking, what needs to happen is addressing the apathy that is so deeply rooted from years (sometimes generations) of living impoverished and ecoconmically and socially oppressed. Reversing apathy is the hardest thing to do and is key to making an influx of social programs successful. These communities must start to feel valued to increase their self-worth. Community, cultural, ethnic and familial pride must be accounted for and respected. I often had affluent people encourage me to "save" myself by leaving behind my family. I never did.
Focus on empoering the kids first, because most parents and adults want to see their kids succeed. So address the bulk of the programs at reaching the kids and inspring them. Take them on excursions regularly to intice them and start giving them options to dream about. Educate them on the realities and the work involved, challenge them.
Adults need jobs that they are proud to claim, where they can see the results if their contribution (you wmight be surprised how much pride a janitor takes in his/her work when they are thanked and they can see a positive affect on other).
My old neighborhood was 1 of 5 neighborhoods nationwide included in Obama´s "Promise Zone" initiative to economically and politically support the most economically disadvantaged and violent areas for adavancement. This is a great step and we should fight for similar initiatives at the local and state goverment levels.
Ultimately, the underlying causes must be examined and eradicated. One thing I always see missing is comprehension behavior health intervention: training to help people learn to appropriately direct their frustrations, worries, and fears positively. That would cripple the crime rate, and less crime means more emotional and physical security, and the apathy rate lowers. People start to care when they feel they just might love long enough to enjoy the benefits their work and outside help.
It has nothing to do with Guns. Why take my right because others (who shouldnt be free) decide to abuse theirs and others? As i stated the these guys have long criminal histories long enough to break printing machines and are allowed back onto the streets to rob and kill others. My gun might be the only thing keeping them from taking my hard worked items and my life to be honest.
Most Americans are not in favor of abolishing the 2nd Amendment...that is, for the most part, part of the more radical left agenda. I don't own a gun and I have no problem with you owning one, but there is no sense in civilians owning automatic weapons that can kill 49 people within a few seconds. That is absurd and I'm sure it's not what the framers of the Constitution had in mind when they decided that each citizen should be allowed to own a musket.
The problem I have with all of this debate is that it's obvious we need to do SOMETHING. Doing nothing has not worked, and tightening the rules on exactly who can and can't (ex-cons, possible terrorists, the mentally ill) along with banning ownership of automatic weapons (that should only be used in wars) would be a great first step. I don't see how in hell anyone could argue with this approach - but I'm sure some will.
Last edited by JoeTarheel; 06-18-2016 at 12:06 PM..
Aslowdodge, it is very difficukt, but not impossible. I will not even begin to claim to have all the answers to this problem, but I do have ideas, some of which I hope to implement in a community program back home one day.
Generally speaking, what needs to happen is addressing the apathy that is so deeply rooted from years (sometimes generations) of living impoverished and ecoconmically and socially oppressed. Reversing apathy is the hardest thing to do and is key to making an influx of social programs successful. These communities must start to feel valued to increase their self-worth. Community, cultural, ethnic and familial pride must be accounted for and respected. I often had affluent people encourage me to "save" myself by leaving behind my family. I never did.
Focus on empoering the kids first, because most parents and adults want to see their kids succeed. So address the bulk of the programs at reaching the kids and inspring them. Take them on excursions regularly to intice them and start giving them options to dream about. Educate them on the realities and the work involved, challenge them.
Adults need jobs that they are proud to claim, where they can see the results if their contribution (you wmight be surprised how much pride a janitor takes in his/her work when they are thanked and they can see a positive affect on other).
My old neighborhood was 1 of 5 neighborhoods nationwide included in Obama´s "Promise Zone" initiative to economically and politically support the most economically disadvantaged and violent areas for adavancement. This is a great step and we should fight for similar initiatives at the local and state goverment levels.
Ultimately, the underlying causes must be examined and eradicated. One thing I always see missing is comprehension behavior health intervention: training to help people learn to appropriately direct their frustrations, worries, and fears positively. That would cripple the crime rate, and less crime means more emotional and physical security, and the apathy rate lowers. People start to care when they feel they just might love long enough to enjoy the benefits their work and outside help.
Just the top of the pile of ideas.
Jobs are great, but being unemployed hasn't been the cause of any mass murder that I can think of. It's been caused by the wrong people having guns in their hands and those guns were too easy for them to get. Socioeconomic issues seem like a whole different set of problems to me...maybe they have slight relevance to our gun problems (gangs, neighborhood crime, etc) but not to these mass killings. Of course people in low-income areas need hope and it's really hard to get out of that environment...the pressure is very high to get into illegal activity just so you can survive. But I have known plenty of people who have come out of that setting over the years by taking advantage of the GI Bill or college scholarships/loans and tons of Americans have made something of themselves when they had no support at all in their early years. There are programs in low-income areas to help people out of poverty, but a lot of people won't or can't take advantage of them.
I'm not saying that I don't like your ideas, but just that there are already many opportunities to help people out of poverty and give them job training and education - but it starts with a little personal motivation.
Most Americans are not in favor of abolishing the 2nd Amendment...that is, for the most part, part of the more radical left agenda. I don't own a gun and I have no problem with you owning one, but there is no sense in civilians owning automatic weapons that can kill 49 people within a few seconds.
When has that happened since at least the 1960s???
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That is absurd and I'm sure it's not what the framers of the Constitution had in mind when they decided that each citizen should be allowed to own a musket.
Where does the second amendment mention "muskets?"
Quote:
The problem I have with all of this debate is that it's obvious we need to do SOMETHING. Doing nothing has not worked, and tightening the rules on exactly who can and can't (ex-cons, possible terrorists, the mentally ill)
The first and last two groups already can't (unless you'd like to add all misdemeanors to the first group), and the second group is no different than anyone else UNTIL they actually commit a crime! Unless you think we should ignore the 4th and 5th amendments as well?
Quote:
along with banning ownership of automatic weapons (that should only be used in wars) would be a great first step.
It's extremely had to get a fully automatic weapons which at minimum requires a $200 tax stamp from the ATF, same for short-barrelled rifles, suppressors, "any other weapons" (basically anything that shoots, but doesn't look like a gun when ready to shoot), and "destructive devices" (projectiles greater than a half an inch except shotgun slugs, or explosives). So what more do you want? When have automatic weapons ever been a problem since the end of the gangster era?
Quote:
I don't see how in hell anyone could argue with this approach - but I'm sure some will.
Because your approach does nothing to address the problem, and creates criminals out of innocent Americans, as well as ignoring vast parts of the Constitution.
I'm not saying that I don't like your ideas, but just that there are already many opportunities to help people out of poverty and give them job training and education - but it starts with a little personal motivation.
This is one of the most common misconceptions which perpetuates the disadvantages. Those opportunities are very limited in scope and application, and comparitively few people in need actually qualify, and then there is the limited number of available spots to utlize, and the limited funds to keep such programs working.
Too many people think it is an issue of "a little personal motivation" when, indeed, it far more than that. Accountability must be recognized inviduallly, politically, and societally. Culpability is not for the poor and impovished only.
Last edited by Jasir; 06-18-2016 at 12:36 PM..
Reason: Typos
This is one of the most common misconceptions which perpetuates the disadvantages. Those opportunities are very limited in scope and application, and comparitively few people in need actually qualify, and then there is the limited number of available spots to utlize, and the limited funds to keep such programs working.
Too many people think it is an issue of "a little personal motivation" when, indeed, it far more than that. Accountability must be recognized inviduallly, politically, and societally. Culpability is not for the poor and impovished only.
I didn't say that personal motivation and responsibility is all someone needs, but it has to be part of it...and pushing the blame on other people or institutions is just getting very old. Some of the onus must be on each individual.
There are SO many programs provided by both the government and by private or pubic neighborhood associations or even churches that are available to everyone that wants to take advantage of them. To say that they are "very limited" and/or that people need to qualify is just false. These opportunities are specifically intended for those depressed areas and the people who need them most, and much of the problem is that MANY people don't want to take advantage of them. There is help out there for those who want it, but their attention is often on other things that have nothing to do with self-improvement or improving their situation. I realize that improving poverty is more complicated than just throwing out programs and expecting people to flock to them, but I strongly believe that some responsibility has to be placed on the people in need. You can't help people who don't want to be helped.
Even just the government programs are plentiful and are not difficult to be a part of, and that's not to mention the private and other public program available. Try going to a country that doesn't have these programs to help those in need and you will really see despair with no help in sight, many times other than those coming from the U.S.
When has that happened since at least the 1960s???
Where does the second amendment mention "muskets?"
The first and last two groups already can't (unless you'd like to add all misdemeanors to the first group), and the second group is no different than anyone else UNTIL they actually commit a crime! Unless you think we should ignore the 4th and 5th amendments as well?
It's extremely had to get a fully automatic weapons which at minimum requires a $200 tax stamp from the ATF, same for short-barrelled rifles, suppressors, "any other weapons" (basically anything that shoots, but doesn't look like a gun when ready to shoot), and "destructive devices" (projectiles greater than a half an inch except shotgun slugs, or explosives). So what more do you want? When have automatic weapons ever been a problem since the end of the gangster era?
Because your approach does nothing to address the problem, and creates criminals out of innocent Americans, as well as ignoring vast parts of the Constitution.
1. It happened last week.
2. Muskets were the weapon of the day. Do you think any of them envisioned automatic weapons? Of course they were referring to citizens owning muskets.
3. We shouldn't have to wait until possible terrorist murder a bunch of people before we take weapons out of their hands. Making terroristic threats and even just suspicion of terrorism is enough to make weapons illegal for those people. If they are on the no fly list then they can be on the no gun list too.
5. It should be impossible to get automatic weapons - not just difficult. An automatic weapon was a problem a few days ago when a crazy prick killed/wounded over 100 people with one. What possible uses does anyone have for them outside of war time? I want them to be banned. Period.
6. LOL! "criminals out of innocent Americans" is a weak statement. These are people suspected of terrorist activity and ties to terror groups, not innocent Americans. It's not like they are being thrown in prison for no reason, but making it illegal to own firearms is a no-brainer.
Exactly what are you offering to address the problem? All you did was attempt to disagree with everything I said rather than making any suggestions, but that's pretty typical of people with your stance. Maybe a situation like Orlando will touch you one day...then you may see things differently. I'm pretty sick of these mass killings and we need to try something.
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