The ATL: new regional transit system (Atlanta, Buckhead: lawyer, zoning, airport)

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

Douglasville and Conyers would both be better served by regional commuter rail rather than Heavy Rail.

Forsyth could enter into a service agreement to extend heavy rail, or have regional rapid buses service the corridor, using the Windard Pkwy station as a launchpad.

Maybe not necessarily Douglasville, but Thornton Rd would be a great terminus for the Blue Line, which is in Lithia Springs which is in Douglas County.

Similarly, if the line is supposed to go to Stonecrest Mall, why couldn't it go one additional stop to the Sigman Rd GRTA park&ride, to serve Conyers and Rockdale County?

I'm just saying, if the 13-county GRTA area was looked at as the one service area, better decisions about these things could be made, than with a 5-county 'first tier' area where all the HRT necessarily has to be.

And like in Cobb County, I'm certainly convinced that heavy rail to about Windy Ridge or Windy Hill or so would be appropriate, but I'm not convinced that heavy rail should be going out to Kennesaw.

Point being, just totally forget the county boundaries within the greater region, and apply the various services wherever they fit and are each appropriate. Like if there's a local bus route along Hwy 92 in Roswell, it should also continue out to Woodstock, at the southern tip of Cherokee County.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Maybe not necessarily Douglasville, but Thornton Rd would be a great terminus for the Blue Line, which is in Lithia Springs which is in Douglas County.

Similarly, if the line is supposed to go to Stonecrest Mall, why couldn't it go one additional stop to the Sigman Rd GRTA park&ride, to serve Conyers and Rockdale County?

I'm just saying, if the 13-county GRTA area was looked at as the one service area, better decisions about these things could be made, than with a 5-county 'first tier' area where all the HRT necessarily has to be.

And like in Cobb County, I'm certainly convinced that heavy rail to about Windy Ridge or Windy Hill or so would be appropriate, but I'm not convinced that heavy rail should be going out to Kennesaw.

Point being, just totally forget the county boundaries within the greater region, and apply the various services wherever they fit and are each appropriate. Like if there's a local bus route along Hwy 92 in Roswell, it should also continue out to Woodstock, at the southern tip of Cherokee County.

So if GRTA can operate in all counties, why doesn't it operate local bus routes? Why does it only focus on Express Buses? GRTA does not have the restrictions MARTA, CCT, and GCT have.

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by cqholt

So if GRTA can operate in all counties, why doesn't it operate local bus routes? Why does it only focus on Express Buses? GRTA does not have the restrictions MARTA, CCT, and GCT have.

Lack of funding, and infrastructure and all that. And because those other agencies are focused on local bus.

What I think should happen, is a total reset/restart, and then a logical service plan for the 13-county region, by one agency, which would absorb all the buses and assets and infrastructure and people from the other 3 (and also receive major new funding.)

A service plan that ignores county boundaries within the greater region. Where major roads are looked at as corridors, and the bus goes as far as it makes sense, instead of where the county line is.

Even MARTA in 5 counties was never going to be able to fully accomplish this. The bus on 141 would have stop and turn aorund before McGinniss Ferry, even though the corridor is just as busy north of that.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by cqholt

So if GRTA can operate in all counties, why doesn't it operate local bus routes? Why does it only focus on Express Buses? GRTA does not have the restrictions MARTA, CCT, and GCT have.

That is an excellent point.

I'd love to see GRTA bust loose and start running buses all over creation. If the state legislature wants to be in charge, fine.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

The Northside business community likely is also pushing for a state takeover, overhaul and rebranding of MARTA into a suburban/exurban-dominated regional transit agency so that they can attempt to speed up the timetable on expanding rail transit lines into heavily-populated areas like North Fulton, Gwinnett and Cobb counties and even out into powerful exurban counties like Hall where both the current governor and Lt. governor have deep political, social and familiar roots.

Originally Posted by cqholt

North Fulton had an opportunity to get Red Line expansion sped up, via the More MARTA sales tax. State legislators blocked it, how is that MARTA's fault?

It's not MARTA's fault.

One of the major problems with North Fulton County is that many of the residents and politicians up that way are unhappy that they are unable to have their own county (the re-created Milton County) that is separate from the rest of Fulton County....So to compensate for their inability to have their own county, some key North Fulton political factions often like to attempt to impose their political will on the rest of Fulton County by seeking to increase the control of Republican-dominated North Fulton County over Fulton County government institutions like MARTA with the help of Georgia's Republican-dominated state legislature.

North Fulton Republicans are more than willing to receive, if not pay for, high-capacity transit expansion (both rail and bus) into North Fulton County from Atlanta....But seemingly almost only if the transit agency executing the transit expansion is controlled and/or dominated by suburban Republicans in areas like North Fulton (and Cobb and Gwinnett counties).

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by cqholt

So if GRTA can operate in all counties, why doesn't it operate local bus routes? Why does it only focus on Express Buses? GRTA does not have the restrictions MARTA, CCT, and GCT have.

GRTA (still) only operates express buses because GRTA Xpress (when it was originally created during the Roy Barnes gubernatorial administration) was started as a way to get transit-averse, MARTA-hating conservative white suburbanites and exurbanites to ride transit by offering a transit service that was specifically targeted at them....That's all the while setting the table by building ridership for a future regional commuter rail system.

GRTA Xpress was intended to appeal to transit-averse suburbanites and exurbanites by being a commuter bus service that was not the black and progressive-dominated MARTA urban rail and bus service that is intensely despised in most areas outside of I-285.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

It's not MARTA's fault.

One of the major problems with North Fulton County is that many of the residents and politicians up that way are unhappy that they are unable to have their own county (the re-created Milton County) that is separate from the rest of Fulton County....So to compensate for their inability to have their own county, some key North Fulton political factions often like to attempt to impose their political will on the rest of Fulton County by seeking to increase the control of Republican-dominated North Fulton County over Fulton County government institutions like MARTA with the help of Georgia's Republican-dominated state legislature.

North Fulton Republicans are more than willing to receive, if not pay for, high-capacity transit expansion (both rail and bus) into North Fulton County from Atlanta....But seemingly almost only if the transit agency executing the transit expansion is controlled and/or dominated by suburban Republicans in areas like North Fulton (and Cobb and Gwinnett counties).

Sorry B2R. You weren't paying attention here. There were several articles in the AJC a couple of years ago showing how North Fulton was getting ignored by the county government. They did get the legislature to redistrict so that they got a fair share of governance and got a more responsive Fulton County.

They simply got the county government to do its job and represent all the county instead of just the areas from downtown south. That was what was driving the Milton County effort.

[magnetar]

I'd caution against being condescending toward B2R; he knows more about these issues than most and I have a feeling he's been paying closer attention than anyone here has.

I think it is hilarious that people think GRTA should take over MARTA and I imagine Keith Parker would, too. Y'all are talking about an agency with a $5 million budget (I'm being generous) taking over one with a $900 million budget. Can any of you name the executive director of GRTA without using Google? Here's a hint: he also runs the State Road and Tollway Authority. GRTA isn't even its CEO's full time job.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by magnetar

I'd caution against being condescending toward B2R; he knows more about these issues than most and I have a feeling he's been paying closer attention than anyone here has.

I think it is hilarious that people think GRTA should take over MARTA and I imagine Keith Parker would, too. Y'all are talking about an agency with a $5 million budget (I'm being generous) taking over one with a $900 million budget. Can any of you name the executive director of GRTA without using Google? Here's a hint: he also runs the State Road and Tollway Authority. GRTA isn't even its CEO's full time job.

Exactly. IF, and that's a big if, anyone should be taking over others, it should be MARTA.

[primaltech]

I think things will come down to meeting the conservatives halfway. Striking a deal, of sorts.

We say, hey, it's no longer acceptable for Metro Atlanta to be transit-averse, and we need our transit system to be able to go where it needs to go, and be well-funded. But in return, we'll make it not MARTA, and with more Republican governance.

To me, that's a good deal. I want to see GRTA acquire MARTA and become this massive and far-reaching transit authority, and we can finally get down to the business of actually building rail lines.

Maybe as part of the deal, we'll get to put Keith T. Parker as the man in charge of it. God, I hope that happens.