"The Boring Company" Tunnels: A Solution Atlanta Urbanists and Suburbanists Both Can Support? (2013, cost of)

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

You are easily off by a factor of 2, if not more, Arjay, and still we have nowhere for the actual money to come from.

What about my post above? Fulton (outside the city of Atlanta) expects to generate $655 million in just five years with a three-quarter penny sales tax. That's with a much smaller population than Cobb. And think what could be done if the business community would finally put its oar in the water!

Get Cobb on board and the money could definitely be raised. Remember, we live in a world where it costs $1.8 billion to build one football stadium.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Remember, we live in a world where costs $1.8 billion to build one football stadium.

This is the same world where a 10-lane, 300' long bridge can be replaced in 7 weeks for under $20 million, but a small pedestrian bridge over an arterial road will cost "tens of millions".

[primaltech]

Yeah, you can build a train along the I-75 ROW from Cobb to Arts Center, but that's so out of the way from the Lenox area and Perimeter. Lindbergh is where I'd prefer the connection to be, for a lot of reasons. Including future considerations, such as planned light rail lines to Lindbergh. That station should be a new central hub for the metro.

And so that's where the need for the deep-bore tunnel comes in. No one wants to see beautiful neighborhoods in Buckhead get demolished, and we shouldn't need to do that.

Damn the costs. Raise the F'ing taxes around here to pay for this incredibly important public infrastructure stuff.

Like I said, dig a tunnel from Lindbergh due west, and slightly north, to the West Paces Ferry village area. From there onwards along 75, it doesn't necessarily need to be underground, but it probably should be, and the elevation considerations would probably make it easiest to do, anyway.

We get what we pay for, is what it comes down to. Time to raise our taxes at the municipal, county, and state level, in order to build quality, expensive, serious transit solutions, as a relief for our bad metro traffic and as a lifestyle option for many.

I want low taxes, but not at the expense of my quality of life. THERE IS A BALANCE. And we need to find a better balance point.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by primaltech

Damn the costs. Raise the F'ing taxes around here to pay for this incredibly important public infrastructure stuff.

Damn the costs? That's an intelligent line of thinking.

[LTCM]

I won't get into the debate on Arts Center vs Lindbergh. But I think primaltech has hit on two important points that I've been expressing for a while.

1) Connecting Cumberland down to the Green/Blue line, which has been expressed as a preference by many on this forum, is a complete nonstarter. If MARTAs plan is to get rail to Cumberland by way of Bankhead we will never get MARTA in Cobb, no matter if it is closer.

2) Downtown is not the center of Atlanta and we need transit hubs which reflect this. Don't hate the messenger, but it's true. Having Five Points be the hub to funnel Gwinnet, Cobb, Sandy Springs, Buckhead etc will never optimal and no reasonable person should support it. Not saying downtown shouldn't have a hub, but it shouldn't be THE hub for the metro.

So fight among yourselves on Art's Center vs Lindberh - I don't care. But the basic idea behind primal's idea is spot on.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

This is the same world where a 10-lane, 300' long bridge can be replaced in 7 weeks for under $20 million, but a small pedestrian bridge over an arterial road will cost "tens of millions".

Yeah, the ped bridge over Northside is so stupid. Someone needs to kill that project while it is still in the cradle.

[primaltech]

Originally Posted by Gulch

Damn the costs? That's an intelligent line of thinking.

It actually is, though. Why should the metro buy the $50 pair of boots, when it could buy the $100 pair of boots that will last at least twice as long, and look better all the while?

"I want to do it this way, damn the costs", is stupid, yeah.

"This would be the best performing, most ideal solution for our metro, so let's do this option, damn the costs" is intelligent. And in the long run of things, it will end up saving us money, vs. cheaper solutions.

Originally Posted by LTCM

I won't get into the debate on Arts Center vs Lindbergh. But I think primaltech has hit on two important points that I've been expressing for a while.

1) Connecting Cumberland down to the Green/Blue line, which has been expressed as a preference by many on this forum, is a complete nonstarter. If MARTAs plan is to get rail to Cumberland by way of Bankhead we will never get MARTA in Cobb, no matter if it is closer.

2) Downtown is not the center of Atlanta and we need transit hubs which reflect this. Don't hate the messenger, but it's true. Having Five Points be the hub to funnel Gwinnet, Cobb, Sandy Springs, Buckhead etc will never optimal and no reasonable person should support it. Not saying downtown shouldn't have a hub, but it shouldn't be THE hub for the metro.

So fight among yourselves on Art's Center vs Lindberh - I don't care. But the basic idea behind primal's idea is spot on.

So now I have an idea that I like even better than that:

Above-ground, high-frequency commuter rail, on a widened Western & Atlantic rail corridor through Cobb's historic downtowns, with stations at Acworth, Kennesaw, Barrett Pkwy, Marietta Square, Fair Oaks/Dobbins, Smyrna, Cumberland, then the train immediately enters the tunnel, then (maybe) an underground West Paces Ferry stop, then finally an underground Lindbergh commuter rail main terminal, where you transfer directly to the Red/Gold MARTA lines, future LRT lines to Emory and Beltline, etc.

Then you have minimal environmental impact both in Cobb and Buckhead, minimal disruption, no traffic delays, etc. While providing great quality rail transit, for the NW corridor all the way out to the lake.

(This would be heavy rail-like commuter rail.)

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Yeah, the ped bridge over Northside is so stupid. Someone needs to kill that project while it is still in the cradle.

That's not the one I'm referring to. And anyway, I would think you'd support a pedestrian bridge which gave pedestrians a safe place to cross a major road without having to wait.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by samiwas1

That's not the one I'm referring to. And anyway, I would think you'd support a pedestrian bridge which gave pedestrians a safe place to cross a major road without having to wait.

Negative. Surface roads should be designed to support peds and bikes. You should be / feel safe crossing any surface street in the city. If we need to design a roadway for higher speeds / grade separation, than it should truly be grade separated and it should be the cars going up, down, and around. Not the pedestrians that will simply forgo the trip or hop in a car if it is made too far out of the way by foot.

Designing a street for pedestrians is much more cost effective than these ridiculous ped bridges that get under used.

[samiwas1]

Originally Posted by jsvh

Negative. Surface roads should be designed to support peds and bikes. You should be / feel safe crossing any surface street in the city. If we need to design a roadway for higher speeds / grade separation, than it should truly be grade separated and it should be the cars going up, down, and around. Not the pedestrians that will simply forgo the trip or hop in a car if it is made too far out of the way by foot.

Designing a street for pedestrians is much more cost effective than these ridiculous ped bridges that get under used.

Well, we'll just disagree. A short bridge from a parking lot to a stadium is not going to cause anyone to forgo a trip. And I highly doubt that a little bridge is going to cost more than completely redesigning a street. And anyway, you should feel perfectly safe if you are crossing at a designated signaled crosswalk.

So, just to be clear...under all circumstances, a pedestrian should have a straight shot from point A to point B without even a minor barrier. I think it's funny that we should change the design of everywhere to accommodate maybe 1% (at most) of the movement.