Has voter fraud been a problem in the ATL? (Washington: loans, college)

[arjay57]

I'm not aware of fraudulent voting being a big issue around the ATL but some of the folks in Washington seem to think it is.

What do you say? Should ATL voters have their full voter-roll data (including their name, address, date of birth, party affiliation, last four Social Security number digits and voting history back to 2006) sent to the new commission in Washington for investigation of potential fraud?

If voter fraud isn't an issue around here, I'd prefer that the federal government keep its big snout out of our affairs.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.0f6a3caf1726

[flyonpa]

Most of the data they are requesting is publicly available now.

SOS is required to send "Free" copies to any number of groups in Georgia. Others can pay to get a copy of it.


Here is a error they did few years ago sending the SSN out when they should not have.

More than 6 million Georgia voters' info leaked - CBS46 News

[arjay57]

Well, there's a lot of publicly available data that I'm not in favor of sending off to some investigative commission in Washington, D.C.

Also, this is specific to people's voting history.

Unless there's a good reason, what's the point of collecting and centralizing all this in some commission in Washington, D.C., and starting an investigation of people on the list? Who gets investigated first and why? How deep will they dig and how long will the investigation go on? Who gets the results and who decides what to do with them?

Seems like more Big Government snooping to me, with no reason being given.

[flyonpa]

Voting History is Publicly Releasable data.

The DNC & RNC already have this data in their databases, Each one can track back your voting history back 30+ years.

There are alot of Duplicate registrations, I moved to NH last year, I registered to vote here. I checked the Georgia SOS website, My registration is still on the books in Georgia months later. It will probably be there till it ages out for non-voting.

Do the various SOS run the registrations/voter roles thru the Social Security "Death" file?
Thru the FBI NCIC Database for convicted criminals, who are now ineligible to vote?
Thru US State database of citizens who have renounced there US Citizenship?
Thru HomeLand (USCIS) to see if the name / Last four SSN matches a green/visa holder who is not eligible to vote?

Drivers licences are canceled, As soon as I got my NH licence, GA was notified that a licence was issued in a different state, and canceled. Shouldn't the same thing be done with Voter Registrations.

[arjay57]

Suppose Trump had won the popular vote by several million votes but that Hillary had won the electoral college and become President.

After the election, Hillary says:

"There is no way that many people could have voted for Donald Trump unless there was massive voter fraud. I want a list of every alleged voter in America, including their full name, address, date of birth, party affiliation, the last four digits of their Social Security number and their voting history back to 2006.

"This information will be sent to a new commission I am appointing, which will be headed by renowned voting rights advocate, Rev. Jesse Jackson. This commission will have broad powers to investigate potential fraud and will not rest until we get to the bottom of this."

I'll guarantee Republicans here in the ATL would be having conniption fits.

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by bu2

The only two studies I have seen out recently estimated as much as several million votes (or as few as the hundred thousands).

You and I have seen drastically different studies then. In fact, pretty much every study I've seen, and the courts and government investigations have corroborated this, have shown that voter fraud is incredibly rare and, where it does appear to happen, is often within the margin of error to be sampling, study, or accounting errors. Here is a solid collection of studies, court records, and investigations that all concluded voter fraud is extremely rare.

The only thing that is curious is why Democrats are fighting so hard to prevent any research in the possibility of voter fraud.

Possibly it's because the voter id and similar laws in the not so distant past have resulted, and been used, to restrict and suppress poor minority, and by extension generally democratic, votes.

If the laws are to be installed in good will, then it is up to those proposing them, primarily Republicans, to demonstrate that the laws will not follow recent examples. In the mean time, it shouldn't be surprising that those very proposals are resisted.

Its known that numerous voter registration drives have turned in fake registrations. People have recently been indicted in Indiana for that. Democrat majority leader Stacey Abrams lead a drive in Georgia a couple of years ago that had numerous fraudulent registrations, although I don't think any indictments were handed out.

Georgia Sec. of State Brian Kemp, the same who was in place to see the state's voter information be stolen and released and who has also refused to comply with the National Voter Registration Act, was the one who made those accusations against Abrams' campaign. He claimed an unprecedented 25% of those registered qualified for fraud, without actually appearing to present any real evidence, and without even processing a massive amount of those who were freshly registered.

Instead, those very claims and inactions brought about a suite from the NAACP for suppression of votes.

It turned out that fewer than one tenth of one percent of the applications actually were suspect, and that Kemp used that incredibly small amount to launch the largest fraud investigation in the state.

Its widely known that there was massive fraud in New York City, Chicago and South Texas in the past. Its pretty widely accepted that LBJ was first elected to the senate by vote rigging in South Texas. Its also pretty widely believed that Mayor Daley gave Illinois to JFK in 1960. I haven't heard of any massive problems in Georgia, but anywhere you have one party control (which is nearly every county in Georgia whether it be Republican or Democrat) there is a risk of voter fraud.

Yet the data, through studies, court proceedings, and agency investigations show that fraud is not a problem today. We've already had plenty of looking into the topic, and it's all shown nothing to be suspect. This effort on the current administration's behalf is nothing more than a waste of money, a distraction from its own internal problems, and an attempt to harm democracy as a whole.

Instead, things like gerrymandering, and the very laws said to stop fraud are wielded to disenfranchise entire sections of the population.

Originally Posted by CA_Vol

It's amazing how this is too big an intrusion for you, but you're fine with government taking over healthcare, college loans, as well as regulating business to death over so-callled "climate change". Intellectual honesty difficult for most liberals.

1) Voter fraud is not a real problem, and has been shown so through plenty of study, court activity, and investigation. Recent history shows that laws to try and stop the non-existent problem, though, have been used rather effectively to suppress voters of certain demographics and political affiliations, primarily of the minority and democratic persuasions.

2) Single-payer healthcare is far more efficient, from both an operations and financial stand point than what we have in the U.S. today.

3) A well educate populace is incredibly valuable to any nation, and insulates from economic stagnation.

4) Climate change is a reality, demonstrated by measurement and observation, and confirmed by decades of theorizing, review, and restudy.

Try and get reality sorted out before you go off to lecture others on the concept of intellectual honesty.

[bu2]

Originally Posted by fourthwarden

You and I have seen drastically different studies then. In fact, pretty much every study I've seen, and the courts and government investigations have corroborated this, have shown that voter fraud is incredibly rare and, where it does appear to happen, is often within the margin of error to be sampling, study, or accounting errors. Here is a solid collection of studies, court records, and investigations that all concluded voter fraud is extremely rare.



Possibly it's because the voter id and similar laws in the not so distant past have resulted, and been used, to restrict and suppress poor minority, and by extension generally democratic, votes.

If the laws are to be installed in good will, then it is up to those proposing them, primarily Republicans, to demonstrate that the laws will not follow recent examples. In the mean time, it shouldn't be surprising that those very proposals are resisted.



Georgia Sec. of State Brian Kemp, the same who was in place to see the state's voter information be stolen and released and who has also refused to comply with the National Voter Registration Act, was the one who made those accusations against Abrams' campaign. He claimed an unprecedented 25% of those registered qualified for fraud, without actually appearing to present any real evidence, and without even processing a massive amount of those who were freshly registered.

Instead, those very claims and inactions brought about a suite from the NAACP for suppression of votes.

It turned out that fewer than one tenth of one percent of the applications actually were suspect, and that Kemp used that incredibly small amount to launch the largest fraud investigation in the state.



Yet the data, through studies, court proceedings, and agency investigations show that fraud is not a problem today. We've already had plenty of looking into the topic, and it's all shown nothing to be suspect. This effort on the current administration's behalf is nothing more than a waste of money, a distraction from its own internal problems, and an attempt to harm democracy as a whole.

Instead, things like gerrymandering, and the very laws said to stop fraud are wielded to disenfranchise entire sections of the population.





1) Voter fraud is not a real problem, and has been shown so through plenty of study, court activity, and investigation. Recent history shows that laws to try and stop the non-existent problem, though, have been used rather effectively to suppress voters of certain demographics and political affiliations, primarily of the minority and democratic persuasions.

2) Single-payer healthcare is far more efficient, from both an operations and financial stand point than what we have in the U.S. today.

3) A well educate populace is incredibly valuable to any nation, and insulates from economic stagnation.

4) Climate change is a reality, demonstrated by measurement and observation, and confirmed by decades of theorizing, review, and restudy.

Try and get reality sorted out before you go off to lecture others on the concept of intellectual honesty.

https://ww2.odu.edu/~jrichman/NonCitizenVote.pdf

"...Our exploration of non-citizen voting in the 2008 presidential election found that most
non-citizens did not register or vote in 2008, but some did. The proportion of non-citizens who
voted was less than fifteen percent, but significantly greater than zero. Similarly in 2010 we
found that more than three percent of non-citizens reported voting.
These results speak to both sides of the debate concerning non-citizen enfranchisement.
They support the claims made by some anti-immigration organizations that non-citizens
participate in U.S. elections. In addition, the analysis suggests that non-citizens’ votes have
changed significant election outcomes including the assignment of North Carolina’s 2008
electoral votes, and the pivotal Minnesota Senate victory of Democrat Al Franken in 2008...."

[fourthwarden]

Originally Posted by bu2

https://ww2.odu.edu/~jrichman/NonCitizenVote.pdf

"...Our exploration of non-citizen voting in the 2008 presidential election found that most non-citizens did not register or vote in 2008, but some did. The proportion of non-citizens who voted was less than fifteen percent, but significantly greater than zero. Similarly in 2010 we found that more than three percent of non-citizens reported voting.

These results speak to both sides of the debate concerning non-citizen enfranchisement. They support the claims made by some anti-immigration organizations that non-citizens participate in U.S. elections. In addition, the analysis suggests that non-citizens’ votes have changed significant election outcomes including the assignment of North Carolina’s 2008 electoral votes, and the pivotal Minnesota Senate victory of Democrat Al Franken in 2008...."

That particular study has plenty of issues, and Snopes as a detailed explanation of why it arrived at the conclusions it did.

Basically, a combination of small sample size having large errors when extrapolating to the larger population, self-selection from being an internet poll, and response errors being treated has hard fact all culminated in an extremely small result of supposed non-citizens voting being extrapolated to an absurd extent.


Here's some additional reading from Politico about finding those problems.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by bu2

Do you read what you link? All they studied was how many dead voters placed a ballot.

"We then apply this approach to a case study of a particular type of fraud.
Results. After examining approximately 2.1 million votes cast during the 2006 general election in Georgia, we find no evidence that election fraud was committed under the auspices of deceased registrants."

Yes, I read the whole article.

They verified by checking the ballots against the list of registered voters which is maintained by the county registrars.

"In Georgia, registrars are charged with adding, modifying, or removing
registrants from the voter rolls in their respective counties. Each month these
registrars receive a report from the Georgia Office of Vital Records detailing
all recorded deaths that occurred in their county from the preceding month.
In theory, any registrant who has died should be removed from the county’s
voter roll the following month. The Georgia Secretary of State also maintains a
statewide voter registration database that is synchronized with the 159 county
registration rolls. Modifications at the county level are therefore reflected on
the statewide roll and any alterations made to the state roll by the Secretary of
State’s Office will likewise be mirrored on the rolls of the county registrars.
The data for our test come from two primary sources: the voter registration
and history databases maintained by the Georgia Secretary of State and a
listing of decedents generated by the Georgia Office of Vital Records. The
state voter registration database contains a number of key data fields for
registrants, including first name, middle name, last name, name suffix, date of
birth, county of residence, race/ethnicity, sex, and voter registration number.
The copy of the voter registration database used in this study was produced
on January 17, 2007."

[CA_Vol]

So much cutting and pasting all proving there is a "study" for everyone. It's ironic how liberals don't want a robust study on voter fraud because there isn't sufficient proof that it exists, but the proof will never exist if it isn't adequately studied. Once again, intellectual honesty be damned.