Latest Suntrust Park influenced Cumberland mixed use proposed in Cobb (Atlanta: sales, condos)

[primaltech]

There are about 8 threads around here, some of them over 100 pages, of jsvh grinding this particular axe, over and over.

I appreciate his opinions, but I have a different perspective. Obviously subjectively as a Cobb resident who owns a home near STP, but also objectively, if we take all emotions out of this from all sides (impossible for most of us here to do), I still don't see the move as a bad thing from the perspective of the Braves, and a large chunk of the fans. Especially when the team hopefully starts playing better.

That's the key for me, is the actual product on the field. The real frustration here lies with the team ownership, on the baseball side of this. Which is supposed to be the whole point.

[cqholt]

The Braves made this move for money. Not the fans.

Truth

[arjay57]

I'm just glad Cobb was there to pick up the ball. The new stadium complex rocks.

[jsvh]

My axe is well sharpened. Thanks for noticing!

[David1502]

Originally Posted by jsvh

False, the city owned the land. The Braves had the controlling lease on the land and could do with it as they pleased. The city even solicited proposals from private developers to try to get the Braves to support redeveloping the area.

Visions pitched for Turner Field parking lots | AJC

And of course the day the Braves left, the area is getting redeveloped.



Interesting you choose to focus mainly on the lame duck years at Turner Field after the Braves announced they were leaving the city. For comparison, here is the attendance of all the years at Turner:

2016 - 24,950
2015 - 24,709
2014 - 29,065
2013 - 31,465
2012 - 29,879
2011 - 29,296
2010 - 30,989
2009 - 29,304
2008 - 31,270
2007 - 33,891
2006 - 31,488
2005 - 31,126
2004 - 28,735
2003 - 29,643
2002 - 32,142
2001 - 34,858
2000 - 39,930
1999 - 40,554
1998 - 41,492
1997 - 42,771


Average Attendance of all years at Turner: 32,378 (Which easily tops the 30,929 in Cobb this year)

And funny thing is, even if the Braves somehow do sell out all their games at STP, they still won't top the attendance the opening year at Turner. The Braves made this move for money. Not the fans.

The Braves have already increased attendance by almost 25% in one year from 24,950 to 30,929 - so it seems like it was a pretty smart move after all. Most businesses would be a thrilled to see that type of year over year improvement.


Another glaring reality is that the long term trend at Tuner Field was a steady downward decline from over 42,000 in 1997 to less than 25,000 in 2016. It seems pretty obvious that some type of change was in order. The move to Cobb County at this point appears to be positive and seems to validate their reasons for making the move to be closer to their fan base.


I've said this before, but I don't remember hearing any posters here complaining about the large sea of asphalt parking lots surrounding Turner Field (and before that Atlanta/Fulton County Stadium). The surrounding area hasn't significantly improved in that 50 year span, so can you blame them for wanting newer digs?


The opposition to the Braves relocating to Sun Trust Park are not based on actual statistics, but an overall opposition to anything being located in Cobb County.

[fermie125]

Originally Posted by jsvh

False, the city owned the land. The Braves had the controlling lease on the land and could do with it as they pleased.

So they were paying the City of Atlanta to be on that property. Would the Braves get the revenue generated from the redevelopment? It was my understanding that the Braves didn't make any money on any of the parking lots surrounding Turner Field.

Originally Posted by jsvh

And of course the day the Braves left, the area is getting redeveloped.

Why would they want to redevelop it if they won't make money on it? The whole point of The Battery is that the Braves will reap millions from leases and sales. The Battery is to the Braves as parking lots surrounding Turner Field is to the City of Atlanta.

2017 - 30,929 LOSING RECORD
2016 - 24,950 LOSING RECORD
2015 - 24,709 LOSING RECORD
2014 - 29,065 LOSING RECORD
2013 - 31,465 POST SEASON
2012 - 29,879 POST SEASON low attendance
2011 - 29,296 MISSED POST SEASON
2010 - 30,989 POST SEASON
2009 - 29,304 MISSED POST SEASON
2008 - 31,270 LOSING RECORD
2007 - 33,891 WINNING RECORD
2006 - 31,488 LOSING RECORD
2005 - 31,126 POST SEASON
2004 - 28,735 POST SEASON low attendance
2003 - 29,643 POST SEASON low attendance
2002 - 32,142 POST SEASON
2001 - 34,858 POST SEASON
2000 - 39,930 POST SEASON
1999 - 40,554 POST SEASON
1998 - 41,492 POST SEASON
1997 - 42,771 POST SEASON

Originally Posted by jsvh

Average Attendance of all years at Turner: 32,378 (Which easily tops the 30,929 in Cobb this year)

The big attendance numbers from 1997 - 2000 have clearly skewed the average attendance number for all 20 years. The Braves were in the middle of their 90's run. So if you remove the abnormal years (1997-2000) and (2015-2016 lame duck years) and only show the "normal" years between 2001 - 2014 you get a much more realistic picture of attendance of 30,939 - the same as STP in a losing year, and more than half of those years (9 of 14) were winning seasons. Plus, the Braves had some good teams in that time span with disappointing attendance (2003, 2004, 2012). 2006 and 2008 are the only stand out years here because the team sucked but attendance was decent.

Originally Posted by jsvh

And funny thing is, even if the Braves somehow do sell out all their games at STP, they still won't top the attendance the opening year at Turner.

OK, so we're comparing the state of professional sports in Atlanta in 1997 with 2017. Seems fair (NOT). A lot has changed in 2 decades. Entertainment options in and around Metro Atlanta have exploded and the proliferation of giant high-def TVs have disincintivized fans from attending games across all sports leagues. That's why Arthur Blank spent an ungodly amount of money on MBS to get butts in the seats because he knows he's competing with your 55" 4K.

[fermie125]

Originally Posted by jsvh

The Braves made this move for money. Not the fans.

No. They made the move for both money and fans. More fans = more $$$ = better teams = more fans = more $$$.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by David1502

The Braves have already increased attendance by almost 25% in one year from 24,950 to 30,929 - so it seems like it was a pretty smart move after all. Most businesses would be a thrilled to see that type of year over year improvement.


Another glaring reality is that the long term trend at Tuner Field was a steady downward decline from over 42,000 in 1997 to less than 25,000 in 2016. It seems pretty obvious that some type of change was in order. The move to Cobb County at this point appears to be positive and seems to validate their reasons for making the move to be closer to their fan base.


I've said this before, but I don't remember hearing any posters here complaining about the large sea of asphalt parking lots surrounding Turner Field (and before that Atlanta/Fulton County Stadium). The surrounding area hasn't significantly improved in that 50 year span, so can you blame them for wanting newer digs?


The opposition to the Braves relocating to Sun Trust Park are not based on actual statistics, but an overall opposition to anything being located in Cobb County.

You are going to base that off 1 year attendance at a new ballpark, which always sees an increase in attendance?

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by fermie125

No. They made the move for both money and fans. More fans = more $$$ = better teams = more fans = more $$$.

Liberty Media sees the Braves not as a pro team, but a real estate investment. They are going to use the profits from the development and give it to shareholders.

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by jsvh

My axe is well sharpened. Thanks for noticing!

Use it on something productive. A stack of logs perhaps. You keep banging it on the same rock.

Back to the topic, I believe this will be seen in the long term as a win/win solution for everyone. I personally wish all the pro teams in Atlanta could have remained in the core. The reality is that Summerhill, while on a map looking like it is downtown, is forever removed from downtown by the interstate interchange separating it from all of downtown.

This area needed a stronger catalyst than the Braves to become a major destination. GSU is it. A university is full time all year open. Not 82 days a year. With so many other options in the city of Atlanta for entertainment, I can't see a Battery type development making it in Summerhill outside the 82 home games. Now if it were midtown, or near Centennial Park, a different story. But not in Summerhill.

Cobb was ripe for something more urban and "downtownish" to come its way. The Battery works in its current location. And the last I checked, MLB is a profit generating enterprise (as are all major sports) so the argument that the Braves did it for money.... take the point and run with it.

Final note.... if the city of Atlanta had a similar footprint as most of its other sunbelt counterparts... LA, San Diego, Phoenix, all the Texas cities..... even smaller cities like Nashville, Charlotte, Jacksonville.... the stadium would still be within the city limits. Atlanta (and perhaps Tampa and Miami) have hemmed in city limits like East Coast cities with metro areas that have developed like Sunbelt cities. That grain of salt needs to always be added in these discussions.