What is taking so long for any development plans around the Benz to happen? (Atlanta: 2015, apartment)

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Suntrust Parks begs to differ.

Comparing a brownfield development to a greenfield, that was controlled by the team is apples to oranges. Atlanta Braves controlled The Battery, so it was 1 owner and much easier to develop. The area around The Benz is a collection of state-owned, railroad-owned, and privately owned property; unlike The Battery not controlled by 1 owner and master developer.

[citidata18]

Cumberland is the fastest growing and most highly-sought after part of Atlanta. When developers decide on where to invest their dollars, their preferred choice will be areas where they can get the biggest return.

Downtown Atlanta is simply not there yet. It's not growing all that rapidly (population nor employment-wise) to support the type of development happening in Cumberland.

Again, like I said, it boils down to market conditions. Let's not overcomplicate things.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by Iconographer

Newport? The Vine City initiative? Underground?

How quickly do you expect these things to happen?
There's plenty going on, but it won't happen overnight.

Some of us would have expected things to start happening around the time the Dome opened. To put that into perspective, when Paul McCartney played at the Dome, he was still in his 40s. He's pushing 80 now. Absolutely nothing has happened in the immediate area since that time, other than the replacement of one dome with another.

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by JPD

Some of us would have expected things to start happening around the time the Dome opened. To put that into perspective, when Paul McCartney played at the Dome, he was still in his 40s. He's pushing 80 now. Absolutely nothing has happened in the immediate area since that time, other than the replacement of one dome with another.

Everything in its time. I really feel that for the areas under discussion, that time is now.
That goes for other neighborhoods like Summerhill to whom little more than lip service was paid up until now.

[autolycus25]

Originally Posted by Iconographer

Everything in its time. I really feel that for the areas under discussion, that time is now.
That goes for other neighborhoods like Summerhill to whom little more than lip service was paid up until now.

I agree. I think SoDo, Gulch, etc. will look very different in 10-15 years. Similarly to how different midtown looks compared to when I got out of Tech in 2000.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Suntrust Parks begs to differ.

You are confusing encouraging development with simply not getting in the way of similar development that would have happened regardless of the stadium. Look at how all the discussion are about "market conditions". The development is happening on the same level regardless of the stadium in either location.

In reality, STP is a even bigger stadium boondoggle. That area would have had a similar amount of development without STP. In fact in many ways Cumberland is lagging this development cycle compared to how they have done in the past and peer areas like Perimeter or even Doraville / Chamblee.

If you need more evidence MLB stadiums do not spur development than would have happened otherwise look at the massive redevelopment (bigger than what is going on around STP) underway in Summerhill that started the day the Braves left.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by jsvh

You are confusing encouraging development with simply not getting in the way of similar development that would have happened regardless of the stadium. Look at how all the discussion are about "market conditions". The development is happening on the same level regardless of the stadium in either location.

In reality, STP is a even bigger stadium boondoggle. That area would have had a similar amount of development without STP. In fact in many ways Cumberland is lagging this development cycle compared to how they have done in the past and peer areas like Perimeter or even Doraville / Chamblee.

If you need more evidence MLB stadiums do not spur development than would have happened otherwise look at the massive redevelopment (bigger than what is going on around STP) underway in Summerhill that started the day the Braves left.

jsvh - I don't want to be insulting, but everything you said has no merit. First, prior to STP the Cumberland sub-market had not seen an office developed in 13 years. As a matter of fact, Cumberland has had more office buildings/sqft developed this cycle than any other market in Atlanta. Just today the ABC had an article stating the Brave's developer is planning the tallest office building in Cobb (32 stories) for ThyssenKrupp's planned HQ at STP. Comcast moved their Southeast HQ to STP from Peachtree Corners. Do you believe this would have happened without STP? Look at the entertainment and restaurants at STP. The majority of these are first to market in ATL and Downtown ATL would kill to have this lineup.



Summerhill development - is about twice the acreage as STP and nowhere near the density. Phase I of Summerhill includes just 30K sqft retail, 25K sqft office, 220 unit student housing, and 120 townhouse style apartments. Even at build out it pales in comparison to the density added in the STP area.


Links to Facts Below:



https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/...ys-growth.html


https://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/...arm-seeks.html



BRAVES AND BUSINESS BOOM
Commercial property accounted for $9.39 billion of the 2018 projected digest — up 10.4 percent from 2017’s $8.51 billion. Personal property made up the digest’s remaining $3.06 billion, which showed little change from 2017’s numbers.
Thursday’s numbers were released around 10 a.m., about six hours before the Atlanta Braves took the field to play their first regular season game in SunTrust Park in Cumberland — the area White said is seeing the most commercial growth.
“There’s a lot of growth in entertainment (options) and excitement that’s going on in and around the stadium, and that’s certainly helping to push up the commercial digest. That’s a large portion of why we’re seeing a big increase this year,” White said.
Cumberland isn’t the only area seeing commercial growth, however.
“A lot of it is around SunTrust Park, but there’s other areas of the county — as you get up to (Kennesaw State University) in that commercial corridor, commercial properties are doing good,” White said.
In all, he added, commercial property values across the county have seen an uptick, with lower vacancy rates in strip shopping centers and apartments.
The values released Thursday were only county-wide estimates, with no figures broken down by city or area of the county. But White said the county has tracked the property value related to the Braves development.
In 2012, the fair market value for the Battery and Braves properties surrounding it was $19.6 million. On Jan. 1, 2017, just prior to the first opening season, its value was nearly 10 times higher at $181.5 million.
This year, the development’s value is an estimated $360 million, White said.
“We’re bearing the fruit of the county’s 100-percent commitment to making the Braves development a success,” said Cobb Chairman Mike Boyce after Thursday’s announcement of the digest. “We’ve done our part, they’ve done their part, and today, we’re seeing the fruits of that effort.”
With several new businesses coming online since Jan. 1 and others expected to open before year’s end, Boyce said, “the news will even be better next year, because it doesn’t reflect all of the development.”

[jsvh]

ATL3K,

Strong growth in this economy is hardly linked to a stadium. I see nothing that indicates Cobb is outperforming peer areas.

And I don't mean to imply that individual business decisions might not happen because of a new stadium. After all Fortune 500 HQ for Gunieine Parts left the area because of the stadium.

And so yeah, maybe there is some synergy an elevator company gains being next to an MLB stadium that an auto parts company does not that I am entierly oblivious to. But I think it is far more likely the relocation to the area was driven by the millions Cobb is offering them in incentives and would have happened similarly as long as those incentives were in place.

Also, comparing density of Phase 1 is a fairly arbitrary metric. Obviously a lot more is happening in Summerhill without the Braves than when they were there.

Market conditions are the driver of the macro level things happening around MBS, STP, and Turner. Not what team or stadium is there.

Also, I assure you that Summerhill will end up much denser than Cumberland. It is a more incremental project than Fuqua's projects are and market conditions dictate it in the long term.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by jsvh

ATL3K,

Strong growth in this economy is hardly linked to a stadium. I see nothing that indicates Cobb is outperforming peer areas.

And I don't mean to imply that individual business decisions might not happen because of a new stadium. After all Fortune 500 HQ for Gunieine Parts left the area because of the stadium.

And so yeah, maybe there is some synergy an elevator company gains being next to an MLB stadium that an auto parts company does not that I am entierly oblivious to. But I think it is far more likely the relocation to the area was driven by the millions Cobb is offering them in incentives and would have happened similarly as long as those incentives were in place.

Also, comparing density of Phase 1 is a fairly arbitrary metric. Obviously a lot more is happening in Summerhill without the Braves than when they were there.

Market conditions are the driver of the macro level things happening around MBS, STP, and Turner. Not what team or stadium is there.

Also, I assure you that Summerhill will end up much denser than Cumberland. It is a more incremental project than Fuqua's projects are and market conditions dictate it in the long term.

Please provide just one link that validates your thesis - as I have done.

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Please provide just one link that validates your thesis - as I have done.

I am on my phone so not as easy. Whatever part you doubt please specify and I will get you support when I am back at a computer.

But here is one for now:

He seemed less than enthusiastic about having the Braves as a neighbor.

“We have been very happy there. It’s such a pretty place,” Looney said. “Strictly speaking for myself, it’s going to be a problem for us. They are going to be building a lot of parking right across the street from us. There’s going to be a lot of traffic in the afternoon when they’re having ballgames. It won’t be as quiet. Speaking for myself, I think what’s going to happen out there will make it not nearly as pleasant for us.” That said, Looney added that the “Braves have been as helpful as they could be but they have to look out for themselves.”

https://saportareport.com/genuine-pa...raves-stadium/