Feds award $24.8 million for Ga. 316 interchange

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

I know that for many years there had been talk of a Walmart Supercenter being built just south of 316 on Harbins Road, but that proposal seemed to be contingent upon 316 being converted to a controlled-access highway.

I wonder if there is a possibility that past proposal to build a Walmart Supercenter south of the new interchange might could still be active now that the 316/Harbins Road is finally about to become a reality?

Possible, they need one nearby anyway though. Its a decent hike to Collins Hill Wal-Mart from there. I don't think there are any closer. That area has seen alot of development especially with the Sugarloaf Pkwy Ext being nearby it and access to Downtown Dacula.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

Possible, they need one nearby anyway though. Its a decent hike to Collins Hill Wal-Mart from there. I don't think there are any closer. That area has seen alot of development especially with the Sugarloaf Pkwy Ext being nearby it and access to Downtown Dacula.

I know that developers were really high on the development potential of the area (the 316/Harbins Road junction) for a long time.

Though I’m not sure where the 316/Harbins Road Walmart Supercenter proposal would stand after the apocalypse for bricks-and-mortar retail that started in 2015 and still seems to be going stronger than ever 7 years later with people shopping from home in unprecedented numbers during the pandemic.

One interesting fact about the area is that there is a Gwinnett County Police Department precinct (GCPD East Precinct) very close by, along Alcovy Road, west of Harbins Road, south of 316.

[cranberrysaus]

Is the plan that one day 316 will be fully limited access from 85 to loop 10?

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by cranberrysaus

Is the plan that one day 316 will be fully limited access from 85 to loop 10?

YES

Transforming State Route 316 - Reconstruction Projects - Gwinnett, Barrow, and Oconee (Georgia Department of Transportation)

[Mossberg]

Yep, 316 was always meant to be limited access, but there were no funds to make that a reality at its inception. But that is changing now.

[testa50]

Athens will grow like crazy if/when 316 is totally limited access.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by Mossberg

Yep, 316 was always meant to be limited access, but there were no funds to make that a reality at its inception. But that is changing now.

The funds to make Georgia State Route 316 a fully grade-separated controlled-access superhighway likely existed from the beginning, it’s just that Georgia’s state government very likely did not want to do what it would have had to do to get the road built properly from the beginning.

... Things like cooperating and coordinating with the federal government to get to 90% of the cost of a fully grade-separated controlled-access superhighway built with federal funds (by designating the road as a 3-digit odd-numbered Interstate spur of a mainline Interstate like I-85) or building such a road as a toll road, even if it would have just been to pay off the initial construction costs of the road.

(Though 316 very likely should have been built as a superhighway with permanent tolls so as to pay both the initial construction costs and the continuing maintenance costs of the road.)

Originally Posted by testa50

Athens will grow like crazy if/when 316 is totally limited access.

That’s a good analysis with which I agree.

Though, it probably should be noted that even with Georgia State Route 316 being mostly not controlled-access up to this point (since GA-316 was completed in the early 1990’s), Athens has still experienced a very significant amount of growth as the home of the flagship campus of the University of Georgia.

Even with GA-316 existing as a limited-access divided highway with at-grade intersections, Athens has experienced an impressive amount of growth because of how the University of Georgia has grown because of how metro Atlanta has grown over the last 70+ years.

[Need4Camaro]

I personally would have said yes to the toll road method, but it probably would have been political suicide to have turned an existing free road into a toll road.

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by Need4Camaro

I personally would have said yes to the toll road method, but it probably would have been political suicide to have turned an existing free road into a toll road.

It might not have been political suicide if the state had just built 316 as a toll road from the very beginning instead.

That’s instead of building 316 as an untolled surface road and attempting to place tolls on it years later after people had been using it without a toll for a significant amount of time.

And then the way that they attempted to put the toll on 316 was not exactly politically savvy, either.

The Sonny Perdue gubernatorial administration attempted to privatize and put tolls on 316 in the year before a statewide election year (in 2005, one year before a statewide election year in 2006) instead of maybe waiting until the year right after the statewide election (2007) and getting behind the project as a desperately needed safety upgrade to a dangerous surface road.

Heck, even without the attempted element of privatization and tolling, the state maybe still might have been able to get an overwhelming chunk (maybe as much as up to 90%) of the construction cost of the road paid for by the feds if they had been willing to put a 3-digit Interstate spur designation (like an Interstate 785) on it.

The problem is that many Georgia state government officials don’t necessarily like dealing with the federal government anymore than they might have to.

So here we are taking 60+ years to correctly complete a road that potentially could have been built within 5-10 years.

(The state officially started building 316 back in the late 1950’s.)

[architect77]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

It might not have been political suicide if the state had just built 316 as a toll road from the very beginning instead.

That’s instead of building 316 as an untolled surface road and attempting to place tolls on it years later after people had been using it without a toll for a significant amount of time.

And then the way that they attempted to put the toll on 316 was not exactly politically savvy, either.

The Sonny Perdue gubernatorial administration attempted to privatize and put tolls on 316 in the year before a statewide election year (in 2005, one year before a statewide election year in 2006) instead of maybe waiting until the year right after the statewide election (2007) and getting behind the project as a desperately needed safety upgrade to a dangerous surface road.

Heck, even without the attempted element of privatization and tolling, the state maybe still might have been able to get an overwhelming chunk (maybe as much as up to 90%) of the construction cost of the road paid for by the feds if they had been willing to put a 3-digit Interstate spur designation (like an Interstate 785) on it.

The problem is that many Georgia state government officials don’t necessarily like dealing with the federal government anymore than they might have to.

So here we are taking 60+ years to correctly complete a road that potentially could have been built within 5-10 years.

(The state officially started building 316 back in the late 1950’s.)

That might be true but it's a shame.

Through those former TIGER grants etc. you could get countless projects and improvements paid for by applying.

But for the record:

Until 2015 GDOT had about a $2 billion a year budget and Georgia ranked 49th in transportation expenditures per capita.

Then Gov. deal got a much needed 10 cents per gallon gas tax hike.

Since then I assume that even more money from the state has come seeing as how MARTA now gets a little funding from the state (due to companies putting their HQs along rail lines).

Right now Georgia's statewide gas prices are higher than NC's which in their case, they maintain all roads (counties are responsible here in GA for theirs). and NC is a prolific road builder spending $3 billion a year on new construction.

So, Georgia has the money to build tons of roads and maintain the existing ones. I know that they are partially funding all the new express lanes, and that's good.

So, expect the state to have the funding and expect them to maintain/build more than in the past.

They have the means, unless it's being diverted to other things. I hope the 25% of gas tax revenue once diverted to the general fund has ended.