Mall of Georgia is a complete and total unmitigated disaster (Atlanta: sales, coupons)

[SLIMMACKEY]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

I typically avoid the Mall of Georgia area at all costs because of how horribly it is laid out.

I was up there today because I decided to take the dog for a walk along Ivy Creek and take care of some errands while I was up there. Wow. I forgot just how horrible this area is. It's like the total opposite of intelligent design. I think I could write a book about what's wrong with the area.

I should say I didn't step foot in the mall.... I'm not talking about the mall specifically, as much as just all the stuff along GA 20 up there. What a cluster.

Anyway, the point of this thread is just to ask a question. When I look at how horribly everything is laid out combined with how generic most of the buildings are, all I could see was a day maybe 15 years from now, maybe 25, where people have decided to abandon the area and it looks like Pleasant Hill Road did in the late 2000s.

Do you think it's possible that the Mall of Georgia area could fall into suburban decay? Could you see a day where the Pleasant Hill corridor gentrifies and attracts retail and business from Mall of Georgia, causing it to sink into failure? If so, what would happen to the area? Would it become a suburban slum, or would it turn rural again?

So your angst is with the area but not the actual shopping mall correct?

[ATLTJL]

So your angst is with the area but not the actual shopping mall correct?

Correct.

I thought I made it clear in my original post, but apparently not....

I'm not talking about the mall specifically, as much as just all the stuff along GA 20 up there.

[Citykid3785]

I have not yet been to MOG, but I lived 10 minutes away Mall of America for 20+ years, and despite being 25+ years old and basically just a large rectangle, the mall is still thriving and consistently has one of the highest lease rates of any mall in the country. So I do think that an indoor mall can still thrive. That said, MN broke ground on their first lifestyle center (Arbor Lakes) in 1998, which was 21 years ago. We can argue how smart it was to have an open air lifestyle center in one of the coldest large cities in the country in another thread. They built another one across town in 2005 (Woodbury Lakes) that went into bankruptcy in 2009. So while and open air style is more relevant, its not a panacea for retail by any means.

But below are what I think MOA has done correctly to stay relevant:
Good mall access - 2 interstates and 1 light rail go directly to mall
Ample parking - they now have a parking app that tells how many open spaces and where to find them.
Good mix of stores, both national chains, luxury, and local mom and pop stores
Open feel. Despite being a giant box, the high ceilings and open air center give it an open feel
Changed with the times to stay relevant. They've changed anchors, heck, even the amusement park completely changed from Camp Snoopy to Nickelodeon Universe. Plenty of stores have come and gone, but they've always maintained a good mix. They are adding an ice rink and indoor water park next. While the box of the mall has stayed the same, the mall itself has never been afraid to make changes.

[primaltech]

It would require some investment, but they could totally fix the roads and lack of connections, and resultant traffic bottleneck issues. More access exits off I-85, more access points in general.

That's the biggest issue with the mall. Malls are sort of outdated, sure, but this one is at least the best one out there. And it has an outdoor village element along with the indoor portion. And that 3-story food court area with the AMC Imax movie theater on top, is just cool.

I say, this mall will be fine long term if they can fix the traffic jam issues, and maybe some remodeling and updating. Maybe convert more of the indoor portion to outdoor village, or build more stuff in the parking lots or whatever. Consolidate the parking into decks like Lenox.

[primaltech]

First fix: add a full bi-directional I-85 diamond interchange at Gravel Springs Rd (324). So at least the people coming from the north won't have to use Buford Drive.

[atltechdude]

Originally Posted by Born 2 Roll

Though the Mall of Georgia development itself appears to remain viable during this era of an ongoing bricks-and-mortar 'retail apocalypse,' I do find it to be somewhat concerning that two of the six or so anchor department store spaces are filled with Macy's and JcPenney's, two department store retailers that have struggled to various degrees of significance in the current near-apocalyptic environment for bricks-and-mortar retail.

I think clothing has an advantage for retail though that a lot of other goods don't. Personally I'd never buy any sort of quality or expensive clothing without trying it on. Those kind of chains have had to scale back the number of stores but as long as there is demand for clothing that fits some locations will remain viable.

[sedimenjerry]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

A lot of really excellent points made in here. Especially intriguing is the notion that as early as 20 years ago, nobody thought the outdoor "lifestyle center" was a better alternative to the enclosed mall. That proves one thing: the longevity of these centers is yet to be proven. They're still relatively new, and it's unclear whether they will stand the test of time.

I have my doubts. Particularly when they're designed to fully replace malls. Check this out in Pearland, TX (outside Houston). It's literally a mall design, but with outdoor corridors instead of indoor hallways. When it's 95 and humid, who wants to walk store to store in the heat? At least First Colony mall in Sugarland has a mixture. Fairview Town Center is similar to Pearland's, but with regular 100+ temps. The only advantage is you can park right outside some of the stores. But if you need to walk from Dillard's to JCPenney, good luck.

[Need4Camaro]

Originally Posted by sedimenjerry

I have my doubts. Particularly when they're designed to fully replace malls. Check this out in Pearland, TX (outside Houston). It's literally a mall design, but with outdoor corridors instead of indoor hallways. When it's 95 and humid, who wants to walk store to store in the heat? At least First Colony mall in Sugarland has a mixture. Fairview Town Center is similar to Pearland's, but with regular 100+ temps. The only advantage is you can park right outside some of the stores. But if you need to walk from Dillard's to JCPenney, good luck.

There seems to be quite a few outdoor malls in Texas. Austin has three significantly large ones. Bee Cave Mall, Domaine, and Round Rock Outlets. They are also everywhere in Florida.

The heat can be a pain but you kind of get used to it after being baked at 115 over a long time. My issue now is keeping warm when it gets to be 50*

[Born 2 Roll]

Originally Posted by atltechdude

I think clothing has an advantage for retail though that a lot of other goods don't. Personally I'd never buy any sort of quality or expensive clothing without trying it on. Those kind of chains have had to scale back the number of stores but as long as there is demand for clothing that fits some locations will remain viable.

That is a really good point that clothing has an advantage in retail that many other goods do not have.

That is also a really good point that some locations will (or may) remain viable as long as there is demand for clothing that fits.

It is just not a certainty that a retailer like JcPenney (whom appears to be increasingly cash-strapped after years and years of poor management) will continue to remain viable for an extended period of time.

Let’s stop dancing around it people — 117-year old JCPenney has one full leg in the grave. It’s not a zombie retailer like former competitor Sears, but that’s the direction after years of mismanagement.

The sad thing here, among many others: J.C. Penney’s new CEO Jill Soltau is stellar. A true retail veteran that should be leading a healthy brand to its next level of greatness. Unfortunately, her decades of experience may be no match for a deeply tarnished brand, a highly economically strapped consumer base and powerful digital shopping trends that have made numerous malls tantamount to barren wastelands.

"J.C. Penney deciding to stop selling appliances signals why it's dying" (Yahoo Finance, 7 Feb 2019)

Meanwhile, Macy's is nowhere near as in bad of a shape as JcPenney's or Sears (which is pretty much the walking dead at this point in time).

But Macy's is still experiencing some significant struggles in the highly challenging retail environment of circa-2019 as a retailer built for a much different time before online shopping and the changing spending habits of a generation like the Millennials (whom generally seem to prefer investing in life experiences over purely material purchases).

"Why Macy's Is Closing More Stores in 2019
… The largest U.S. department store chain still has too much overlap among its locations." (The Motley Fool, 15 Jan 2019)

With a seemingly more stable customer base, I think that the Macy's location at the Mall of Georgia is likely (but by no means guaranteed) to stay in place for the foreseeable future, while the Macy's location down the road at the struggling Gwinnett Place Mall is significantly more likely to be in serious jeopardy of closing in the not-too-distant future.

Meanwhile, with JcPenney's being in a significantly worse financial position than Macy's, there could be some concern about how long the JcPenney's location at the Mall of Georgia will continue to operate.

[ATLTJL]

I've thought a lot about this. Just as Millennials said, "why are we living in the boring suburbs when we can go revitalize the cities that were popular a generation or two ago?" an upcoming generation might say, "why are we walking in the heat, cold and rain to get from store to store? You know, our great grandparents had a much more elegant solution to this."