12-06-2019, 09:25 AM
Location: NW Atlanta
6,503 posts, read
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Reputation: 4463
Quote:
Originally Posted by
atlHawks
Cancel culture is awful.
Agreed.
12-06-2019, 10:11 AM
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
10,351 posts, read
8,569,440 times
Reputation: 16693
Quote:
Originally Posted by
atlHawks
Cancel culture is awful.
It seems some people just look for something to be offended by. I understand some of these memorials don’t represent what we consider correct today, but eliminating them just lets people forget history and perhaps lessons learned today.
12-06-2019, 06:34 PM
14,394 posts, read
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Reputation: 14163
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DreamerD
I thought about your response for a while. Wasn't it taxpayer dollars that put it there in the first place? Why would it be out of the question to have taxpayer dollars remove it?
Others responded with a similar response but as you asked I’ll give my reasons -
1) the demand is from a group of students, not something that was voted on by a majority of the local population
2) there are much higher priorities for spending taxpayer dollars
If the city agrees with the students and their supporters to permit a move, let the supporters fund it. I think it would be more valuable to keep the statue and teach people about Grady’s viewpoints of the time and how our society has changed.
12-06-2019, 10:07 PM
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Why do people care so much about this?
12-07-2019, 12:03 PM
16,701 posts, read
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Reputation: 7671
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jeoff
It’s not a memorial to the confederacy, or celebration of racism. In a region that is known for constantly looking backward, he pushed Atlanta forward—that is why the statue is there. We should give context to history, and remind folks that some men and women that did important things weren’t wonderful people, but this is not an attempt at correcting a wrong, it is burying history.
I agree. This is getting out of hand.
12-09-2019, 11:52 AM
Location: Atlanta, GA
719 posts, read
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Reputation: 691
I have an alternative view on this. Hopefully, we all are aware of the history of the south and Atlanta.... BUT removing statues isn't going to solve it. If that's the case then rename the hospital too. If I have kids I want them to understand the transition of the world and what It once was. We can't always protest to remove, sand-blast, etc etc. Instead, I think we should request to have another statue placed... That shows the growth and direction we are going.... By removing the statues to me is like saying remove it from the textbooks, so its out of mind. The strength comes from knowing it was once there, and at one point the person on the statue was prominent.
12-10-2019, 06:21 AM
Location: Eastwatch by the sea
1,280 posts, read
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Reputation: 1649
I'm willing to bet that those students have no problem celebrating Independence Day, Thanksgiving, using US currency, etc. In fact, it's pretty safe to presume that a so called racist or two, had a hand in the founding of Georgia State University.
If they really want the statue removed, perhaps they should purchase it, then have it removed. Power only yeilds to greater power.
Someone please give those knucklehead college students a Kleenex or two, and tell them to have a nice day. Close your eyes if you don't like looking at the inanimate object.
Btw, I know a person who refuses to go to Stone Mountain because of her feelings about the relief. Feel how you want to about the depictions. It is an engineering marvel!
12-10-2019, 02:18 PM
4,757 posts, read
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Reputation: 3715
Quote:
Originally Posted by
seussie
Just a brief note: it was funded by public subscriptions rather than taxpayer dollars. The sculptor, Alexander Doyle, also built his career off of commissions to create Confederate sculptures.
My general response to this and most sculptures that venerate problematic people: good. Society changes , and so should its art and the way public art can set the tone for society. The statue moved once. It can move again. I'd prefer to a trash bin or broken down for reuse. That thing is heavy. Pride blinds, and I see too many people trying desensitize the effect racism did and still has by saying things like "it's normal for white people to have been racist then." Imagine if you were the target of that racism then or now. But, because I am a historian and I do think destruction enables many people to still not engage with history, I like their suggestion of a plaque. But also, if it would go to a history museum or the likes, people who love these figures and are arguing that people overlook their contributions, should be assuaged by that being one of the main objectives of preservation centers. More student groups, etc. would get exposure to this than the few folk pounding the pavement with 19th century tour books in their hands.
The first bolded: The biggest opposition to the statue being moved comes from a lot of people with a boomer mentality. Just reading the things I do on this specific forum reinforces this belief. There is a strong unwillingness for people to even consider change.
You wouldn't want to know how many students I've met who have a strong disconnect with their grandparents/parents because of their racism. I am not surprised to see this reaction because we grew up in it and it's a part of our culture. Just like it was normal to talk about Columbus and the glorious things he did for this country, his home country, etc., it is normal for people to engage in overwhelmingly positive talk when discussing Henry Grady.
Here's a quote from Grady:“The supremacy of the white race of the South must be maintained forever, and the domination of the negro race resisted at all points and at all hazards – because the white race is the superior race,” Grady said at the Texas State Fair in 1887."
I also agree that art can set the tone for society. I am very observant of the space that this statue takes up. For a city that was known to be "too busy to hate" and that is now seen as one of the more progressive cities for blacks in terms of success, this statue paints a different picture and demonstrates the complete lack of empathy and hatefulness that is still present in large blocks of our society.
The resistance is expected. We are seeing powerful negative reactions to things in history class being challenged such as this person was great because he did x, y, and z, but failing to highlight the scores of people this person had killed. This person was great but for whom? This is a question I always see NOT asked.
12-10-2019, 04:46 PM
14,394 posts, read
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Reputation: 14163
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DreamerD
The first bolded: The biggest opposition to the statue being moved comes from a lot of people with a boomer mentality. Just reading the things I do on this specific forum reinforces this belief. There is a strong unwillingness for people to even consider change.
You wouldn't want to know how many students I've met who have a strong disconnect with their grandparents/parents because of their racism. I am not surprised to see this reaction because we grew up in it and it's a part of our culture. Just like it was normal to talk about Columbus and the glorious things he did for this country, his home country, etc., it is normal for people to engage in overwhelmingly positive talk when discussing Henry Grady.
Here's a quote from Grady:“The supremacy of the white race of the South must be maintained forever, and the domination of the negro race resisted at all points and at all hazards – because the white race is the superior race,” Grady said at the Texas State Fair in 1887."
I also agree that art can set the tone for society. I am very observant of the space that this statue takes up. For a city that was known to be "too busy to hate" and that is now seen as one of the more progressive cities for blacks in terms of success, this statue paints a different picture and demonstrates the complete lack of empathy and hatefulness that is still present in large blocks of our society.
The resistance is expected. We are seeing powerful negative reactions to things in history class being challenged such as this person was great because he did x, y, and z, but failing to highlight the scores of people this person had killed. This person was great but for whom? This is a question I always see NOT asked.
What a great opportunity to educate everyone on the positives AND negatives of Grady.
Then, the city should have a referendum to decide on the statue and plan accordingly.
12-10-2019, 07:06 PM
10,396 posts, read
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Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by
markjames68
What a great opportunity to educate everyone on the positives AND negatives of Grady.
Then, the city should have a referendum to decide on the statue and plan accordingly.
Any debate about removing the Henry Grady statue from its current location on Marietta Street in Downtown Atlanta appears to be moot.
That is because Georgia state law expressly prohibits the removal of publicly-owned monuments like said statue of Henry Grady in Downtown Atlanta.
And those who understandably may be deeply uncomfortable with the current prominent location of a statue of a historical figure who held and openly espoused extremely racist views (extremely racist views, which unfortunately, were commonplace at the time) probably should not expect Atlanta Mayor Keisha Lance-Bottoms and/or too many high-profile figures in Atlanta city government (or for that matter, too many high-profile figures in Atlanta society) to speak out or advocate too openly about removing the statue from its current spot.
That is because openly speaking out and advocating for or making any attempts for the removal of the Henry Grady statue from its current spot in Downtown Atlanta would most assuredly intensely anger deeply conservative Georgia state legislators who see the removal of confederate and Jim Crow-era statues and monuments from public spaces as a personal affront that is equal to a crime against their view of humanity.
For a public figure like Mayor Bottoms, publicly speaking out and/or publicly advocating for the removal of the Grady statue from Downtown Atlanta would be equivalent to an act of political war with the State of Georgia.
Publicly speaking out and advocating for the removal of the Grady statue would severely strain relations with anxious deeply conservative rural and outer-exurban state legislators that are already basically looking to engage in political, cultural and social warfare with all things Atlanta-related (Atlanta-related things like the Airport, Delta Airlines, the Atlanta-based TV/Film production industry, etc.)… And it would also make it even more difficult than it already might be for a relatively very moderate figure like Georgia Governor Brian Kemp to hold off future political attacks by those anxious and resentful state legislators on all things Atlanta during a time of growing angst over the demographic and political changes that metro Atlanta is generating within the state... So do not expect a figure like Mayor Bottoms to spend any of her preciously limited political capital on this issue at this time.
For those who might wish to see it removed and/or relocated from its current location, the unfortunate reality is that the statue probably is not going anywhere anytime soon.
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Urban houses (%)
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Mortgage status - with mortgage (%)
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Industry diversity
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People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
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People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)