NHL open to another expansion franchise in Atlanta (Alpharetta, Gainesville: incomes, live in)
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While the part of the North metro Atlanta regional OTP suburban and crescent north of I-285 that includes North DeKalb (Dunwoody), North Fulton (Roswell, Alpharetta, Johns Creek, Milton and Sandy Springs OTP), Cobb, Paulding, Bartow, Cherokee, Pickens, Dawson, Forsyth, Hall, Gwinnett and Jackson counties has more than 3 million residents.
The demographic dominance of Atlanta’s aforementioned greater Northside OTP suburban and exurban crescent comes from the fact that only about 870k residents live ITP while more than 3 million live in the aforementioned Northside OTP suburban and exurban crescent counties.
The demographic dominance of Atlanta’s aforementioned greater Northside OTP suburban/exurban crescent also comes from the fact that the area appears to have the most racial and ethnic diversity in metro Atlanta and the state of Georgia with the large and fast-growing Asian-dominated cluster of racial and ethnic minorities in North Fulton, South Forsyth and Gwinnett counties and to a lesser (but still at least somewhat noticeable) extent in East Cobb.
The North metro Atlanta OTP suburban/exurban crescent also is demographically dominant because it is where the largest cluster of households with median yearly incomes of $100k and higher in the Atlanta metro region and the state of Georgia are located in East Cobb, North Fulton, South Forsyth and North Gwinnett counties.
The political dominance of Atlanta’s aforementioned greater Northside OTP suburban/exurban crescent comes from the fact that the area has produced so many powerful politicians and has since World War II been at the forefront of a couple of demographic tsunamis that have affected and/or ultimately changed the state’s entire political landscape.
Some of the notable powerful political figures that greater Atlanta’s aforementioned greater Northside OTP suburban/exurban crescent has produced since World War II include:
> Former Georgia U.S. Senator Paul Coverdell (from North Fulton County)
> Former Georgia Governor Joe Frank Harris (from Cartersville area/Bartow County)
> Former Georgia Governor Roy Barnes (from Mableton in South Cobb County)
> Former Georgia U.S. Senator Johnny Isakson (from North Fulton and East Cobb counties)
> Former Georgia state House Speaker Glenn Richardson (Georgia’s first Republican state house speaker since Reconstruction from Hiram/Paulding County)
> Former Georgia Lt. Governor Casey Cagle (from Gainesville/Hall County)
> Former Georgia Governor Nathan Deal (from Gainesville/Hall County and Habersham County by way of Sandersville in South Georgia)
> Former U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary and former high-ranking Georgia 6th Congressional District U.S. Representative Tom Price (from Roswell/North Fulton County by way of Michigan)
> Former Georgia Lt. Governor Geoff Duncan (from Cumming/Forsyth County)
> Former Georgia 9th Congressional District high-ranking U.S. Representative Doug Collins (Gainesville/Hall County)
> Former Georgia Senator Majority Leader Butch Miller (from Gainesville/Hall County)
> Current Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger (from Johns Creek/North Fulton County)
> Highly controversial current Georgia 14th Congressional District U.S. Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene (represents exurban/rural Northwest Georgia but originally from the Forsyth County side of Alpharetta)
> Powerful radio personality Martha Zoller (from Gainesville/Hall County by way of Columbus, GA)
Powerful former U.S. House Speaker Newt Gingrich (who often is credited with being one of the leaders of the modern Republican revolution with the GOP’s historic takeover of Congress in 1994) was based in West Georgia but represented part of the area just north OTP in Cobb, South Cherokee, North Fulton and extreme western Gwinnett counties from 1993-1999.
And powerful political figures like former Georgia U.S. Senator, 2-term former Georgia Governor and 4-term former Georgia Lt. Governor Zell Miller (from Young Harris/Towns County) and former Georgia state House Speaker David Ralston (from Ellijay/Gilmer County) both were from the North Georgia Mountains region but very often had political goals that aligned with the metro Atlanta’s powerful Northside OTP suburban and exurban crescent.
Because of the explosive growth of the area after the end of World War II, it was metro Atlanta’s Northside OTP suburban crescent that led the way in transforming Georgia from a Democratic Party dominated state to a Republican Party dominated state in the late 20th and early 21st centuries with so many white Republican voters moving into North metro Atlanta suburban areas (particularly in Cobb, North Fulton and Gwinnett counties) between the end of World War II and the turn of the millennium.
By the end of the 20th century, the Cobb County Republican Party had become the most powerful local GOP chapter in the state of Georgia and one of the most powerful local GOP chapters in the entire U.S., and Cobb County had more Republican voters than any other county in Georgia by the turn of the millennium.
Though, continued explosive growth in Gwinnett County pushed that county to briefly have more Republican voters than any other county in Georgia during the middle of the first decade of the 21st century before a series of damaging ethics scandals on the GOP-dominated Gwinnett County Board of Commissioners and increasingly rapid demographic shifts quickly diminished the strength of the Republican Party in Gwinnett County which is now the second-most populous Democratic-dominated county in Georgia.
And because of the continued explosive growth of the area after the turn of the millennium, metro Atlanta’s Northside suburban and exurban crescent (including in Cobb, Paulding, North Fulton, Forsyth, Gwinnett and Hall counties) appears to currently be leading the way in transforming Georgia from a deeply conservative white Republican-dominated state to a state where Black and minority Democrats possibly could be much more politically competitive over the next 20 years.
The move of the Atlanta Braves Major League Baseball team from Turner Field in the City of Atlanta proper to a new stadium at Truist Park stadium adjoining a large mixed-use development at The Battery in the Cumberland commercial district in Cobb County where the team’s attendance and finances have thrived and the current serious effort by two competing groups to attempt to attract an NHL franchise back to the Atlanta market at two potential sites in the Alpharetta area are a couple of high-profile examples of the growing social dominance of metro Atlanta’s Northside OTP suburban/exurban crescent.
The size and dominance of the schools in academic measures and athletic competitions (particularly in the big-two sports of football and basketball) in Cobb and North Fulton counties and (especially) in Gwinnett County (which has been one of the most highly competitive areas in the country for high school football over the past three decades) as well as the growth of areas like the suburban downtown village areas of Marietta, Woodstock, Roswell, Duluth, Norcross, Lawrenceville and Buford as well as the emergence of Alpharetta as a major regional hub of business and social activity and the continued importance and relevancy of commercial districts like Cumberland and Perimeter Center are other examples of the social dominance of metro Atlanta’s Northside OTP suburban/exurban crescent.
And the cultural dominance of metro Atlanta’s greater Northside OTP suburban/exurban crescent appears to be best reflected in high number of newcomers that the area constantly attracts because of the increasing presence of well-paying jobs, very highly-rated schools and numerous high-quality suburban metropolitan amenities in the area.
The cultural dominance of metro Atlanta’s greater Northside OTP suburban/exurban crescent also appears to be reflected in the attitude by at least some affluent residents that the area is socially and culturally superior to ITP metro Atlanta and South metro Atlanta.
The rise to demographic, political, social and cultural dominance of metro Atlanta’s Northside OTP suburbs and exurbs didn’t happen suddenly but happened in the form of a series of advancements over numerous decades that happened with pivotal events such as:
> The opening of Dobbins Air Force Base and the erstwhile Bell Bomber plant during World War II, which started the initial suburbanization of Cobb County in the 1940’s by attracting significant numbers of military personnel and factory workers to the area
> The construction of Lake Allatoona in the 1940’s, which to supply water and electricity for future economic growth and development of Cobb County and what eventually became OTP suburban and exurban Northwest metro Atlanta
> The reopening of the massive Bell Bomber plant under the Lockheed name in the early 1950’s, which increased, strengthened and solidified the suburbanization of Cobb County in the late 20th century and, along with massive white flight out of the City of Atlanta proper, set the county on a direct path to eventual political, social and cultural dominance
> The construction of Lake Lanier in the 1950’s, which set the stage for the future growth and development of Gwinnett, Hall, Forsyth and North Fulton counties
> The opening of the massive Western Electric plant at I-85 Northeast and what is now Jimmy Carter Boulevard in Norcross in the early 1970’s, which sparked increased growth and suburbanization in Gwinnett County
> The development of Technology Park Atlanta in what is now the Peachtree Corners area of Gwinnett County in the mid-late 1970’s
> The opening of the then-new massive passenger terminal at the Atlanta Airport in 1980, which was one of the largest construction projects in the country in the late 1970’s. The opening of the massive passenger terminal set the stage for the Atlanta Airport to eventually become the world’s busiest airport before the turn of the millennium
> The opening of Gwinnett Place Mall in 1984, which exploded growth and accelerated the suburbanization of Gwinnett County
> The September 1990 announcement by the IOC (International Olympic Committee) that Atlanta would be the host of the 1996 Summer Olympic Games, which exploded the amount of new commercial and residential construction activity in metro Atlanta (especially in many areas located north of I-20) and made metro Atlanta a major destination for international immigrants, especially from Latin America
> The emergence of Atlanta as a major national and international hub of popular music production (particularly Hip-Hop and R&B music production) in the early 1990’s, which (along with the 1990 announcement that Atlanta would host the 1996 Summer Olympics) significantly increased Black migration into the Atlanta metro area (which had already been a leading relocation destination for African-Americans since the Civil Rights Movement) from other parts of the country, particularly from the Northeast, the Midwest and the other parts of the greater American South but also from California.
With so many metro Atlanta residents living OTP compared to the number of metro Atlanta residents that live ITP, it really should come as no surprise that a suburban and exurban culture and social apparatus predominates in the greater Atlanta metropolitan area/region.
(About 5.4 million residents live OTP (including more than 3 million who live in North metro Atlanta’s OTP suburbs and exurbs) compared to about 870,000 residents who live ITP.)
I have a difficult time with the premise that the four categories touched on in the earlier statement are driven simply by population in the Northern OTP locales previously mentioned:
“….even the greater North metro Atlanta OTP suburban and exurban crescent alone is far more demographically, politically, socially and culturally dominant than ITP metro Atlanta at this point in time and has been for decades.”
Demographics. 3m vs 870k (your figures). I get more population can be 1 driver.
-Where do the elite (billionaires) live? ITP
-Where are the majority of colleges and universities (education plays into another demographic) ITP
-Where are a majority of the global/nationwide offices located for large corporations? ITP
Politically.
Dr. King, Abernathy, Andrew Young, Maynard Jackson and many, many more from ITP are “dominated” by OTP residents? Taylor-Green? Haha gimmie a break. In my opinion, it’s the antithesis - politically, ATL/ITP is much more politically dominant than OTP.
Culturally.
Virtually ALL cultural vibe happens ITP: Tons of museums, Ballet, Opera, Symphony, Botanical Gardens, the Zoo….
Socially.
Shopping, Clubs, Restaurants, Falcons, Concerts, ATL United, Ferris Wheel, Centennial Olympic Park, Hawks…..
Again, it’s not adding up for me that OTP is “dominant” with the above.
I have a difficult time with the premise that the four categories touched on in the earlier statement are driven simply by population in the Northern OTP locales previously mentioned:
“….even the greater North metro Atlanta OTP suburban and exurban crescent alone is far more demographically, politically, socially and culturally dominant than ITP metro Atlanta at this point in time and has been for decades.”
Demographics. 3m vs 870k (your figures). I get more population can be 1 driver.
It’s not just that the demographic, political, social and cultural dominance of the metro Atlanta OTP suburbs and exurbs (including the North metro Atlanta OTP suburbs and exurbs) has been driven by the significantly larger population of the area when compared to the population of the area ITP.
(Which population size obviously is extremely important as a driver of the overall dominance of a particular area like the North metro Atlanta OTP suburbs and exurbs.)
But it’s also that the aforementioned dominance of the metro Atlanta suburbs has been driven by the affluence of much of the population that lives in metro Atlanta’s OTP suburbs and exurbs… Particularly the affluence of much the population that lives in metro Atlanta’s aforementioned OTP Northern suburban and exurban crescent where just Cobb, North Fulton OTP, Gwinnett, Hall, Forsyth, Cherokee, Bartow and Jackson counties alone had a combined estimated total GDP (gross domestic product) of roughly about $228 billion in 2021.
That roughly $228 billion total GDP of the aforementioned North metro Atlanta OTP suburban and exurban counties is compared to the non Northside OTP portions of Fulton and DeKalb counties which had a combined estimated total GDP of roughly about $175 billion in 2021.
(I estimated that the non-Northside OTP portion of Fulton County accounted for roughly about 65% of Fulton County’s 2021 estimated total GDP of about $202.342 billion, and that the non-Dunwoody portion of DeKalb County accounted for roughly about at least 90% of DeKalb County’s 2021 estimated total GDP of about $46.9 billion.)
This is an excellent point that much of metro Atlanta’s 1% elite lives ITP, particularly in affluent ITP areas like Buckhead, Vinings, the ITP portion of Sandy Springs and even north-central DeKalb County.
Though, there are also many 1% elite that live in affluent OTP areas like East Cobb, Alpharetta, Johns Creek, Milton, North Gwinnett, Peachtree Corners, Berkeley Lake, Lake Lanier and even the OTP portion of Sandy Springs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esteban5
-Where are the majority of colleges and universities (education plays into another demographic) ITP
This is an excellent point that many of the most prominent colleges and universities in metro Atlanta are located ITP, including Georgia Tech, Georgia State University, Emory University, the colleges and universities of the Atlanta University Center, Agnes Scott University, Oglethorpe University, Atlanta Technical College and Atlanta Metropolitan State College.
But there are numerous colleges and universities that are located OTP as well, including the University of Georgia, Kennesaw State University, Clayton State University, Brenau University, Emory University Oxford College, the University of West Georgia, Reinhardt University, Gwinnett Technical College, Georgia Gwinnett College, North Georgia State University, Georgia State University Perimeter College, Georgia Piedmont Technical College, Chattahoochee Technical College, Lanier Technical College, Southern Crescent Technical College, Gordon State College, Mercer University, Georgia College & State University, Berry College, Shorter University and Life University.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esteban5
-Where are a majority of the global/nationwide offices located for large corporations? ITP
This is an excellent point that most of the global and national corporate offices for major companies are located ITP.
Though, the corporate offices of such major companies as Home Depot, Chick-Fil-A, UPS, Mercedes-Benz, Inspire Brands (Arby’s, etc.), Church’s Chicken, Cox Enterprises, Comcast, Newell Brands, TK Elevator, State Farm, Kimberly-Clark Corporation, Zaxby’s, Genuine Parts (NAPA Auto Parts stores), WestRock packaging, Intercontinental Exchange and The Weather Channel are located OTP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esteban5
Politically.
Dr. King, Abernathy, Andrew Young, Maynard Jackson and many, many more from ITP are “dominated” by OTP residents?
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. obviously is one of the most positively influential (and dominant) social figures ever in human history whose legacy strongly endures today.
Andrew Young (who along with Billy Payne helped to lead the effort to bring the game-changing 1996 Summer Olympics to Atlanta and Georgia) and Maynard Jackson (who as the City of Atlanta’s first Black mayor helmed the then-massive construction project that built the current now-domestic terminal that set the stage for the Atlanta Airport to eventually become the world’s busiest airport) are influential and vitally important figures in Georgia history.
But Andrew Young and Maynard Jackson are also former mayors of the City of Atlanta proper who were elected to office by voters who only live within the 136 square mile area of the City of Atlanta proper and could not be elected to statewide office in Georgia during their eras as elected officials when white voters OTP and statewide would not vote for Black candidates for statewide office.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esteban5
Taylor-Green? Haha gimmie a break.
Marjorie Taylor Greene obviously appears to be one of the most embarrassing and undignified figures ever to hold public office in American history. But as unfortunate as it may seem and actually be for the state of Georgia as a whole and for the American people, MTG has skillfully used social media and this deeply polarizing time in American history to become a highly adversely dominant figure in Georgia and national politics and culture with her undignified and embarrassing antics.
And the extremely and exceptionally deeply conservative voters in MTG’s district (Georgia’s 14th congressional district) keep electing her to Congress to greatly disrupt a federal political system that they increasingly dislike.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esteban5
In my opinion, it’s the antithesis - politically, ATL/ITP is much more politically dominant than OTP.
While the City of Atlanta proper and ITP indeed have given the state of Georgia highly influential, vitally important (and even dominant) social and political figures like Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Maynard Jackson, Andrew Young, John Lewis, etc.; with a population of only about 870k residents (including about 500k residents in the City of Atlanta proper), ITP metro Atlanta can’t necessarily be as electorally dominant as OTP metro Atlanta and Georgia can with more than 5.4 million residents living in OTP metro Atlanta and more than 10 million residents living in the part of Georgia that is located outside of the I-285 Perimeter.
Heck, it’s only been a fairly recent phenomenon in Georgia history that political figures from the area that we now know as “ITP” or the area of the state that is located inside the I-285 Perimeter could be elected to statewide office in a state in Georgia that historically has been dominated by rural political interests, typically from the part of the state that is located south of Atlanta.
Ironically, IIRC, think that the at times highly controversial Lester Maddox may have been one of the first politicians from Atlanta to be elected to statewide office when he won the election to become governor in 1966. Though, in his later years, Maddox lived in Cobb County (Northeast Cobb).
Historically, Houston County in Central Georgia was one of the most dominant counties in Georgia politics in the 20th century. After about 1980 and through the end of the 20th century and into the early 21st century, the shift in power from Middle and South Georgia up to North Georgia became increasingly apparent as areas north of Atlanta (including Cobb, North Fulton, Hall, Bartow counties, etc) increasingly started producing more statewide politicians and strongly influencing the outcome of statewide elections.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esteban5
Culturally.
Virtually ALL cultural vibe happens ITP: Tons of museums, Ballet, Opera, Symphony, Botanical Gardens, the Zoo….
Socially.
Shopping, Clubs, Restaurants, Falcons, Concerts, ATL United, Ferris Wheel, Centennial Olympic Park, Hawks…..
The metro Atlanta OTP suburbs and exurbs obviously don’t have the highly enriching core metropolitan urban cultural and social amenities that metro Atlanta has ITP.
But even without the highly enriching core metropolitan urban cultural and social amenities that ITP metro Atlanta has, OTP metro Atlanta still has many important social, cultural and recreational amenities in its own right, including (but not limited to):
> Truist Park, home stadium of the Atlanta Braves’ Major League Baseball team
> The Battery mixed-use development that is immediately adjacent to and built immediately around Truist Park stadium
> Glover Park at the historic Marietta Square, which is the site of many community festivals and cultural events
> Historic Downtown Roswell
> Ameris Bank Amphitheater in Alpharetta
> Southeastern Railway Museum in Duluth
> Southern Museum of Civil War and Locomotive History in Kennesaw
> Northside Hospital Cherokee Amphitheater in Downtown Woodstock
> Duluth Town Green in Downtown Duluth
> Alpharetta City Center and Town Green
> Avalon
> Peachtree Corners Town Center and Town Green
> Historic Downtown Norcross, including Lillian Webb Park and Thrasher Park
> Suwanee Town Center
> Downtown Lawrenceville, including Lawrenceville Lawn and Gwinnett County Bicentennial Plaza
> Historic Downtown Buford, including Tannery Row Artist Colony
> Gas South Arena, home arena of the Atlanta Gladiators minor-league professional ice hockey team
> Five local ice rinks in North Fulton, Forsyth, Cobb and Gwinnett counties (including Atlanta Ice House, Center Ice Arena, The Cooler, The Ice and Atlanta IceForum) that support a thriving amateur ice hockey scene in Atlanta’s northern suburbs and exurbs
> Cumming City Center, including Lob Sobh Amphitheater
> Gwinnett Environmental and Heritage Center
> The entire Gwinnett County Parks system
> Chattahoochee Nature Center
> Dunwoody Nature Center
> Chattahoochee River National Recreation Area in Cobb, North Fulton, Gwinnett and Forsyth counties
> Lake Lanier
> Lake Allatoona
> Downtown Athens
> Helen
> The city of Blue Ridge in the North Georgia Mountains
> Downtown Dahlonega
> Downtown Cartersville
> Gibbs Gardens
> Atlanta Botanical Gardens Gainesville
> Sweetwater Creek State Park
> Arabia Mountain
> Panola Mountain
> Red Top Mountain State Park
> Kennesaw Mountain National Battlefield Park
> Amicalola Falls State Park
> Chattahoochee National Forest and the Blue Ridge Mountains, including Brasstown Bald, etc
> Stone Mountain Park
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esteban5
Again, it’s not adding up for me that OTP is “dominant” with the above.
It’s not that OTP metro Atlanta and North Georgia are inherently dominant (as some more arrogant affluent Northside OTP suburban and exurban residents might would have many metro Atlantans and North Georgians believe).
It’s that there are so many more metro Atlantans and North Georgians living OTP just simply because there is so much more land area OTP than there is ITP.
ITP metro Atlanta only has a population of about 870k residents and only has a total area of just under 256 square miles, but OTP metro Atlanta and North Georgia has a population of 6 million+ people and a total area of tens-of-thousands of square miles.
That doesn’t at all take anything away from ITP metro Atlanta which remains very vitally important, relevant and dominant in so many ways, especially economically with ITP metro Atlanta being home to the world’s busiest airport at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport, a facility which most likely has been responsible for most of the growth and prosperity that the greater Atlanta metropolitan and North Georgia region (including the aforementioned metro Atlanta OTP suburbs and exurbs) has experienced since 1950.
But the reality is that the increased population of OTP metro Atlanta and North Georgia allows the area to throw its weight around politically, socially and culturally.
Last edited by Born 2 Roll; 03-18-2024 at 07:01 PM..
You can't view Atlanta as a global city and take ITP vs OTP seriously. When Atlanta was 1-3 million The ITP vs OTP thing made sense, but as 6.3 million MSA 7.2 CSA it's very outdate.
ITP is not big enough, it's normal for a city the size of Atlanta to have edge cities out that far.
The reason I keep bring up Houston 640.44 sq mi, LA 469.49 sq mi, Phoenix 518.27 sq mi. because you have imagined what if Atlanta sq mi was that size. You have to imagine what if Fulton was 2,000 sq mi.
For example, Houston, Beside Downtown Houston has Uptown, TMC, Westchase, Energy Corridor, Greenway Plaza, Memorial City, Greenspoint, Westchase, etc. just inside the city.
What happening areas in metro Atlanta is places are behaving like Atlanta's 400 to 600 sq mi regardless that it's not.
So places in the North are urbanizing to fill in that void.
I agree with Born 2 Roll with the significant growth on the Northside, The population center of metro Atlanta has to be like Sandy Spring, Roswell ish because the Northside population is greater then the south. So while it's not the center of the metro, it's more center to the population at least the Alpharetta ones is. So while it sounds funny saying closer to demographic, they are also not wrong. It is closer to the population and growth.
Where I disagree is that is some spite against Atlanta or for North Metro to form its own counter identify against Atlanta. This is more the natural progression of a Sunbelt city the size of Atlanta.
Not everything is located in 136 sq mi of LA Downtown for example. LA have many different edge cities in the city. But LA has bunch of suburbs that serve as edge cities. Many of them famous themslves and still attach to identity of Greater LA.
Hecks SoFi Stadium was just built in Inglewood
With population growing more to The north come a greater need for urban development, infrastructure and amenities.
Where I disagree is that is some spite against Atlanta or for North Metro to form its own counter identify against Atlanta.
There is no "North Metro" counter identity, just a bunch of jurisdictions wanting to be considered big time (Cobb County, Forsyth County, the North Fulton cities) yet still want to act like bedroom communities when it comes to transportation and land use.
There is no "North Metro" counter identity, just a bunch of jurisdictions wanting to be considered big time (Cobb County, Forsyth County, the North Fulton cities) yet still want to act like bedroom communities when it comes to transportation and land use.
Agreed, ATL isn't like Dallas / DC / Seattle / Miami and other metro's where there are other competing cities within the metro. Its ITP Atlanta and OTP bedroom communities. Alpharetta is clearly trying to change that with this NHL effort, but it's still closer to being a cul-de-sac bedroom community than to being Bellevue, Fort Worth, Fort Lauderdale, etc. Plus looking at population, as in people's home addresses, throws out the whole daytime population aspect of this. Where you lay your head at night doesn't necessarily correlate to where you spend your time and money.
Agreed, ATL isn't like Dallas / DC / Seattle / Miami and other metro's where there are other competing cities within the metro. Its ITP Atlanta and OTP bedroom communities. Alpharetta is clearly trying to change that with this NHL effort, but it's still closer to being a cul-de-sac bedroom community than to being Bellevue, Fort Worth, Fort Lauderdale, etc. Plus looking at population, as in people's home addresses, throws out the whole daytime population aspect of this. Where you lay your head at night doesn't necessarily correlate to where you spend your time and money.
Well, I'm a hockey fan, but I'll never go to Alpharetta for a game. I won't go that amphitheater there either.
I'm not ITP either, but getting to 400 and then up it... no thanks.
Well, I'm a hockey fan, but I'll never go to Alpharetta for a game. I won't go that amphitheater there either.
I'm not ITP either, but getting to 400 and then up it... no thanks.
Piggybacking on this...anyone that is opposed to a MARTA rail extension to Windward (or to Halcyon) at this point given these proposals really has massive car-brain.
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